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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Gary on December 26, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
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I recently bought this post war mushroom lamp, with a more detailed inspection of the colour scheme there is in each of the coloured whorls a red inclusion. This red inclusion is very similar in consistency and appearance of gold aventurine used in Monart glass.
The red inclusion is easier to see in the photos when the lamp is lit.
I do know Monart did use red aventurine, but having never seen this type inclusion (red aventurine) I don't know what it looks like. Any information would be appreciated.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14881
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14878
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14879
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14880
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14875
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-14876
Gary
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I believe that green aventurine arose as an artifact of the batch (I'm not exactly sure how this would happen - and it doesn't actually seen to be a realistic chemical process I can think of). I have seen it in reality in both Monart and in a bit of Hadeland I have.
The green is a property of the actual bits of glittery stuff, not anything to do with reflecting the colour of glass the glittery bits are in.
I can't tell from your pics, I'm afraid, if your red glittery bits are really red in themselves or just coloured by the glass they're contained in.
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Looks like a bit of confusion here. Red aventurine is the reddish variety of the gem stone (usually green; there is also a bluish variant) of the same name which is not related to the glass. Sometimes red glass combined with traditional copper aventurine is also but improperly named "red aventurine". Green aventurine glass is based on Chromium.
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The confusion may have arisen in the terminology that I have used (i.e. red aventurine) the correct term I believe is iron(111) oxide. I used the phrase “red aventurine” as a generic title.
As for the photos, they are for showing the similarity of composition of the red inclusion and gold aventurine (copper oxide) and does not represent the true colour of the red inclusion.
Gary
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:spls:
To make my terminology clear, I'm taking "aventurine" to be the type of glittery inclusions found in glass, not any gemstone or mineral or charmstone/crystal therapy thing.
Is this wrong, Ivo? :hi:
Now I've found I can enlarge the images, :-[
I can see red grainy inclusions in the lamp, I can't tell if they're glittery or not. I always thought aventurine glass was defined by the inclusions being glittery, the most common type being copper metal. (copper oxide is dull black)
(This is further confused by there being a charmstone/crystal therapy sort of thing which is copper inclusions in something glass-like - can't remember what they call it - "Goldstone"?)
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There are some really good technical descriptions on this site about aventurine glass, how it is made, how it is used and what colour it has, and what the differences are between glass shards, gold leaf, and mica. "Goldstone" is another word for copper aventurine - with Cu shavings, not the rare CuO or the viciously poisonous Cu2O (verdegris).
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You mostly find the other colours of aventurine used by Paul in weights but they did sometimes get used in the ware. The red is quite a deep colour.
See Ysart glass plate 168/172 for red and 165/172 for green. 161 has green and copper aventurine but does not show well in print. Copper and gold are distinct.
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I have managed to get a better photo showing the red inclusion.
Gary
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Lovely. In the book plates 34, 59 and 94 show red or green aventurine but only 94 shows in the pics - look at the yucky green between the large red swirls.. that is it. I guess the other colours did not work too well in ware, hence the limited usage.
What had never occurred to me before is that the fact of them using aventurine in 1925 may well point to paperweights having been made much earlier than previously considered.
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For those without a copy of my book (Giving away here (http://www.ysartglass.com/Indexart06.htm))
Here is plate 94 - Copyright ©1990 Glass Study Association (http://glass-study.org/)
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What had never occurred to me before is that the fact of them using aventurine in 1925 may well point to paperweights having been made much earlier than previously considered.
Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh! It's bad enough trying to work out whether folks' Ysart weights might be pre-war, particularly Salvador's work. I have still not been able to confirm (or, I suppose, deny) the idea that UV reaction can separate pre- and post-war Ysart items.
And now, the thought that use of aventurine might indicate paperweights from 1925! I can see it now ... all the Ysart-like paperweights on eBay soon being listed as c1925. ;D And no doubt some will insist that Paul Ysart made them, not Salvador :spls:
But on a more serious note, would it help anyone if I were to produce a photo gallery of the ranges of aventurine colour from my weights, both Salvador's and Paul's?
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And now, the thought that use of aventurine might indicate paperweights from 1925! I can see it now ... all the Ysart-like paperweights on eBay soon being listed as c1925. ;D And no doubt some will insist that Paul Ysart made them, not Salvador
Well we have already seen auctions of Monart from the 1890s by Salvadors father... so why not. >:D But why did they use coloured aventurine so early when clearly it added so little.
But on a more serious note, would it help anyone if I were to produce a photo gallery of the ranges of aventurine colour from my weights, both Salvador's and Paul's?
Yes!