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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on November 29, 2010, 08:40:32 PM

Title: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on November 29, 2010, 08:40:32 PM
I've included this here since the Celery has an English spelling - but I may have to stand corrected.     I'm assuming modern - but not really sure, and wouldn't normally keep it except that the ground/polished pontil seems to be quality - and intriguing with the word Celery, as don't know whether this makes it a little older or brand new.
Traditional gold/amber colour  -  stands about 175mm/7" tall - and some wear on the base.    Does this effect narrow down the possible outputs, or did most factories turn out this sort of finish?  I'm really lost on this one.    Thanks for looking. :)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 29, 2010, 09:08:46 PM
Stevens and Williams/Royal Brierley. BBoVG, p110

There's only one way to spell celery in any variety of English!!!

The mark just means it was made for the UK market.
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery
Post by: Paul S. on November 29, 2010, 10:18:45 PM
Christine - you're a gem -  and do you know, because it isn't green, I didn't think at all of looking in Barrie Skelcher's books.   Well done and thanks :hiclp:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery
Post by: Bernard C on November 30, 2010, 05:39:37 AM
Paul — "CELERY" exempted it from the purchase tax on non-essential and luxury goods.   Undented ashtrays were often sold as butter pats for the same reason.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 30, 2010, 07:40:29 AM
Paul knows about luxury goods tax
Quote
The mark just means it was made for the UK market.

rather than made in England is what I meant (and didn't say)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on November 30, 2010, 02:48:10 PM
thanks for the reminder however, Bernard, and Christine is correct - this subject had come up several times before, although must admit I hadn't previously heard of the 'butter pat for the ashtray substitution.    The introduction of Purchase Tax on luxury goods in 1942 was part of the governments war effort to raise money - and this tax remained in force until 1973, when it was replaced by the dreaded VAT. :cry:
Unfortunately, I don't think you'd get much celery in this particular holder, so maybe it really was masquerading as a flower vase - but now I know its pedigree, it will certainly stay with me :).    This gold/amber being a seemingly popular colour, during the period we are speaking of, for factories such as Whitefriars - Webbs - Stevens & Williams - Royal Brierly  -  the sort of colour that you could once speak of as be 'gay' :o
Reference:   The National Archives - Kew.  (Labour and the Redistribution of Wealth - extract from Cabinet Papers 1915 - 1979).   Riveting read :tof:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: keith on November 30, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
Without  :hj: is this a shape common to this factory? or as I suspect not, as I have a green flecked vase in similar form except without the polished pontil scar :huh:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on November 30, 2010, 08:24:22 PM
Hello Keith.       Christine was of course referring to one of Barrie Skelcher books devoted to examples of U. glass i.e BBoVG - aka 'The Big Book of Vaseline Glass', and   whilst I am one of Christine's biggest fans, I do not agree with this sort of abbreviation.   Not everyone will necessarily know what this sort of cryptic reference means, and I believe that book titles should be given in full.   That said, I am full of admiration that Christine was able to id my glass that quickly, and that accurately - something I was unable to do. :-[
I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say 'flecked' - are you saying that yours is exactly the same as mine - except that it is a green 'ice/crackle'  instead of gold/amber.    In the aforesaid book, Skelcher shows an example identical to mine - except that it is in green glass and, I assume, it flouresces.   I am a little worried that yours does not have a pontil scar.   Does your piece glow under the torch???
I have no objection to you adding a pic. of your example to this thread, otherwise we will not know exactly what yours looks like.   Christine is doubltess more qualified to answer your question than me. :)    Oh, why can't I keep my replies short :cry:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 30, 2010, 08:34:28 PM
I think it seems likely that yours is Royal Brierley Keith, but a picture would be good. A different manufacturing technique might avoid the pontil mark.
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 30, 2010, 08:35:05 PM
Check it for uranium as well
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: keith on December 01, 2010, 01:15:45 AM
I did post it a while ago and I think Christine suggested it may have been R. Brierley,it's one of three pieces with the same decor,the vase sprang to mind while reading Pauls post because it's on the shelf by the computer (I don't have The Big Book of v.g but do have his 'Vaseline Glassware')
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: keith on December 01, 2010, 01:17:12 AM
Forgot to add,no u.v and only the large bowl has  a polished pontil mark ::)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on December 01, 2010, 09:57:02 AM
thanks Keith - interesting pieces.   Difficult to compare accurately with just a picture on the screen, but there may well be subtle differences in shape when compared with the amber example, and there is, of course, an absence of the ice/crackle effect.   Great shame that at least one of them doesn't 'glow'.   I assume there is nothing similar shown in Charles Hajdamach's volume on C20 glass (one essetial book I still don't have)    I won't comment futher, since Lustrousstone is far more knowledgable than me regarding this sort of thing.   thanks for showing them. :)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: nigel benson on December 01, 2010, 03:09:33 PM
Hello,

I have to make an admission ...... I do not have any of Barrie Skelcher's books, and therefore do not have access to the picture of the vase on page 110 and its attribution. Therefore, I have to ask does he give any reference for his assertion that the vase is S&W/RB, since it would be good to know?

I have had the flecked pieces down to be proved through research in the archives for some time, as my suspicion has been that they are indeed R&W/RB, so Skelcher's reference would be very useful.

Nigel
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 01, 2010, 04:26:39 PM
He does, later...
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 01, 2010, 08:36:40 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STUNNING-STEVENS-WILLIAMS-1930s-COLOURED-ABBEY-VASE-/120654794544

Shape illustrated in their pattern books as D107, according to Skelcher
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: nigel benson on December 02, 2010, 12:08:14 AM
Christine,

Many thanks for your help :) :)

Shame, I can't/don't wish to comment on the listing you've linked to, since it's ongoing!

Nigel
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Frank on December 02, 2010, 01:53:35 AM
I don't mind commenting on the piece on eBay  :24: absolute dung. Rather have some Liuli at that price.

Update, board nanny, how does dung improve on c-rap :huh:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 02, 2010, 07:36:52 AM
The price is rather  :o I hadn't noticed that, but please do comment, particularly on the decor, when it's finished. I have seen a mug with this effect (in an antique shop where it has been forever and now is no longer after I thought I might buy it)  and it occurred to me after seeing something at the National that it was Royal Brierley. The listing was only something I saw on a random browse.

I wonder if these are from the same vein http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,21920.0.html (I must ad my mug to that thread).
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: keith on December 02, 2010, 04:17:04 PM
The mug is very similar to the small vase/beaker I have(with polished pontil scar).In regards to the S&W 'Abbey' piece I recently saw something in the same decor that had a sticker for Cowdy,Gloucestershire on the base :huh:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: nigel benson on December 02, 2010, 06:58:30 PM
Hello,

OK, no comment, but see Hajdamach 20th Century British Glass, page 109.

Also see http://www.fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/results.asp?menuItemOn=2&start=380&resultsSalesID=88 (http://www.fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/results.asp?menuItemOn=2&start=380&resultsSalesID=88) lot 610, and compare with eBay item.

People's observations might be illuminating ;) :o

Nigel
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 02, 2010, 07:51:51 PM
The ebay item is miles away from Abbey, but the form is very similar to the vases in this thread.
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on December 02, 2010, 08:06:52 PM
from what I can see in the auction pictures in Nigel's link, these decanters have almost nothing in common with any of the pieces shown here.   They have a surface decoration which is fissured - and their 'swirl' type of coloured decoration is unlike the other 'Abbey' piece shown.    These decanters show a style of decoration which appears to be referred to in Jackson's '20th Century Factory Glass' - page 198.    For those of us who do not know, to what does the word 'Abbey' refer. :)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 02, 2010, 08:26:01 PM
I'm not saying that anything other than the pieces Nigel has referenced are Abbey (though the fissures in those are a crackle effect). I only pointed out the ebay item because because of it's similar shape and surface crackle to the bits we were discussing and I spotted it while thinking about this thread. Sorry, I seem to have inserted a red herring.
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on December 02, 2010, 08:51:27 PM
No matter Christine - I was being a little over-severe, possibly.    But you have still not answered my question...........    The meaning of Abbey??  - please. :sg:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: nigel benson on December 02, 2010, 10:34:07 PM
Paul,

The meaning of 'Abbey' is a type of decorative ware that S&W produced. Both the references that I gave in my last post show Abbey Ware.

So, as Christine rightly points out the crackle effect on the surface, which was introduced a month after the colour only version, in April 1928 (This is similar to Monart's Cloisonne ware, or S&W's Arabesque). The colour only, is large-ish areas of enamel/colour used to make the desired decorative effect - introduced March 1928.

As far as I'm aware at the moment there is no known derivation/reason for the name 'Abbey' being used.

Nigel
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on December 03, 2010, 11:01:08 AM
Nigel - if you are chastising me slightly then I take the point. ;)    In fact, I rather liked the colourway of the 'Abbey' vase shown in the first link from Christine - and described as 'Stunning' - although I sensed there seemed to be a slight air of disapproval of the piece.     I have never purchased from ebay, and wouldn't even know where to start - but must admit that the 'Buy It Now' price did seem a little high.     However, as we all know, desireability is all in the eye of the person with the desire. >:D    Thanks for your enlightenment re the product history and dating.   
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: nigel benson on December 04, 2010, 12:57:42 AM
Paul,

Chastising....where on earth did that come from. It's so much easier to have a conversation where intonation and facial expression make it clear what is meant. Just answering your question :)

Quote
In fact, I rather liked the colourway of the 'Abbey' vase shown in the first link from Christine

I think you're missing the point. Have another look at the eBay that Christine linked to item and compare it with the items I linked to - they are not the same.

Nigel
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on December 12, 2010, 09:13:06 AM
Amazing sometimes how similar pieces can turn up in quite rapid succession - and bit of a bonus that this one should be U., so thought I would include in the same thread.  Has the same concave ground/poished pontil mark as the original Celery shown here - so am thinking almost certain to be the same factory.   Was bought with the wire flower support included, so guess this is probabaly original, and points to a flower vase as probably use.    This shape not shown in Barrie Skelcher's book, unfortunately.   Height is 6.25"/160mm, and base shows wear appropriate for 1940 period. :)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on April 27, 2011, 03:29:06 PM
not having seen any of this ice crackle material since my last post, just thought it might be of slight interest to show another piece (very recent find) in this style - and this time a quite nice looking olive colour.   So now I have pieces in U. glass, pink, and olive.     I have also seen a couple of very small tumbler like examples in pink, which I might yet buy. :)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: keith on April 27, 2011, 05:36:28 PM
..and to continue,here's one I found recently(uv reactive)
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on April 27, 2011, 08:18:49 PM
very nice Keith  -  perhaps they're breeding, and pleased to hear that yours is U. :sun:
Title: Re: An ice/crackle Celery - ID = Stevens and William / Royal Brierley
Post by: Paul S. on May 15, 2011, 10:25:17 PM
I fear this is growing a little unwieldy, but.................here is yet another - this time in clear glass. - you can just about make out the word CELERY.    I think it quite possible that we may have now covered fully the existing colour range ;D.       This example, incidentally, does not have a ground/polished pontil mark.