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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Gilead on March 17, 2008, 07:26:15 PM

Title: Green Charger/Lid? - ID = Czechoslovakian, Carl Stölzle und Sohne, Hermanshütte
Post by: Gilead on March 17, 2008, 07:26:15 PM
Evening members,

                       Today on my travel i came across this unusual green Charger/plate /lid,to be quite honest i dont know what to call it, as any one seen a piece of glass like this before?.

If so can you please tell me what it is, and any idea of the pattern on it, the width is 11ins by 12.5ins it seems to have a sort of leaf pattern on it, and a double lip on the side's. cheers
                                                   Steve
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Leni on March 17, 2008, 07:37:21 PM
Yep, I bet this one is uranium too.  I know I've seen it on Pamela's site, but can't remember what it is.  Have you looked on http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de ?
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Gilead on March 17, 2008, 07:54:48 PM
Hi Leni
          Thanks for the link will take a look now just got to put up a glass set and a big piece of pressed glass,
                                                                                                                                                  Steve
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: pamela on March 17, 2008, 08:10:17 PM
this one?
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/02075.html
and many more on my site  :angel:
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Gilead on March 17, 2008, 08:19:31 PM
Hi Pamela
               Would this be a plate then? and is it made by the same maker, do you know the name of the pattern? what would these have been used for in the day of being made i like the look of this pattern most unusual well to me of cause,  ::)
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 17, 2008, 09:42:03 PM
Looks like uranium glass to me, which dates it to about the 1930s. Probably a serving dish of some sort. Pamela has a set here http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/04262.html (http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/04262.html) but hasn't been able to identify them
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Tigerchips on March 17, 2008, 10:27:06 PM
I see loads of bowls in this pattern around the North East of England?
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Gilead on March 17, 2008, 10:28:58 PM
Hi Christine
                from the photo link you gave me it looks like i have got a large plate here, as the dish is much deeper than the glass i have, proberly about the depth as the small plate's in Pamela's photo's, that it a very nice set she as, lucky  :mrgreen:
                                                                                                                                           Steve
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Sue C on March 17, 2008, 10:51:12 PM
I see loads of bowls in this pattern around the North East of England?

Me too Tony!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 18, 2008, 07:18:39 AM
They're not uncommon this way but not in uranium, otherwise I'd have one and I don't think I have (note the think  :-[ )
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Cathy B on March 18, 2008, 09:51:27 AM
Masses of this pattern in Australia, too. I get the feeling that there may have been a few makers of the pattern - Crown Crystal definitely had a version. It goes by the name Squared Eye here.

Pretty sure this one is Australian:
Bowl (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9430), profile (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9436), base (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9435). Not uranium, as you can probably tell from the photograph. It does has a light green glow, but not enough to be uranium. :) (Must test my known Crown to see whether the glow matches).

Maybe Australian
Crown did order moulds for these patterns, but are they Crown, or by the original factory, or someone else again?
This salad set (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9434) might be a marriage  (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9433) as the master bowl is a slightly different shade to the smaller ones. A vase (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9439) and
another salad set (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9437).
In each of the above sets, the large bowls are frosted with applied enamel frit, while the footed bowls have the frosting cut into the mould. Why?

Not Australian:
Wrong colours and generally too nice to be Australian  ;) Plate (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9444) with acid etched sections, and a nice ground and polished finish (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9443) to the base. Crown Crystal never did this blue (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9441) to my knowledge and again, the base (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9440) is too well finished.
   
Finally, a comparison between  three dome footed sundaes (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9442).
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 18, 2008, 10:27:32 AM
I do have one, a jug! But I've never seen them here with mould or frit frosting (crinkles), just acid or possibly sandblasted frosting.
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Cathy B on March 18, 2008, 10:40:05 AM
Wow. Maybe those are all Aussie - it was a favourite treatment here. That pink bowl though is just too nicely finished. I'll have to dig out the rest of them - I have two jugs, both in terrible nick though, plus some vases and what they called an eared nappy in the catalogues.
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: pamela on March 18, 2008, 08:50:56 PM
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/deckeldosen/02825.html
here we go for the matching cheese  ;D
thank you Christine for the better link!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: pamela on March 18, 2008, 08:54:04 PM
marked checoslovaquia!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: pamela on March 18, 2008, 09:07:49 PM
Marcus - please!!!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Lustrousstone on March 18, 2008, 09:56:51 PM
Well that's one step forward for some of the variants
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Cathy B on March 18, 2008, 11:49:41 PM
Ooh, great! I've never seen anything like that one. The Australian literature only has various bowls, possibly plates from the same moulds, and two different sized vases.
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Anne on March 19, 2008, 05:01:07 AM
And a nice salad set in blue here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350037377013
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Tigerchips on March 19, 2008, 10:02:12 AM
Oh, just remembered that i've got some...
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2871
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2872

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-1087
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Sklounion on August 08, 2008, 07:02:26 AM
Hi, re-visiting Pamela's cheese plate and lid....
Speculation over. Czechoslovakian, Carl Stölzle und Sohne, Hermanshütte, pattern number 18948.
Only the cheese plate and lid, and a jardiniere, appear to have been in production until @ 1958.
Probably all other pieces were in the inter-war, or early post-war catalogues.
In the inter-war period, probably imported by Weiss and Biheller, in London.
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: rosieposie on August 08, 2008, 12:37:54 PM
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!  Everybody  for all of that information.....what lovely people you are, sharing your knowledge and expertise, so generous.....I am overwhelmed :).  I have looked through all the files as well, so thanks for those too :-*
I realise now that there is a lot more to collect, so bootfairs, glass fairs and eBay, look out, rosieposie's about! ;D
Now, do I stick to green or do I start on other colours......my sister has some of the blue???????
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Sklounion on August 08, 2008, 12:45:28 PM
If you wanted one of those, that would be just the thing.... in green, blue, amber, amethyst, lilac, turquoise, rosalin, topaz etc ;D ;D
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: rosieposie on August 08, 2008, 01:55:22 PM
Marcus!!  Now you are just teasing me, surely! :o  Is it really available in ALL those colours??  I have seen amber, blue, pink, and of course, my green, but AMETHYST!  Wow!! Is there a site I can visit to see all these colours? What is the difference between amber and topaz in colour?  Is rosalin the pink colour?  And what colour is 'etc'????
It is lovely to have the name of it.....one piece I bought, it was labelled 'Viking Boat', alluding to it being scandinavian, how about that! But 'Square Eye' is perfect......have you got any to sell??

About my Dad's mantra....well he was a collector of all that was strange and unusual, and if I asked him, "What's that Dad?", he would always reply....."Not too sure, but, if you wanted one of those, that would be just the thing!"  It was years before I enjoyed the subtlety of the saying, and I still use it today!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Cathy B on August 08, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
Thank you Marcus, wonderful info!  :hiclp:
Just a question - the pattern was definitely copied by Crown Crystal in Australia - I have good evidence that they ordered moulds in the pattern. Could you look at the pictures in my earlier post and see whether you agree with that I've claimed to be Australian are? Would it help if I sent you scans of what I have? They're copyrighted to someone else, so they can't be published here or elsewhere. Thanks again  :-*
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Sklounion on August 08, 2008, 06:09:22 PM
Hi,
I may gently be teasing.... but...
Carl Stölzle und Sohne, Hermanshütte, are known to have produced items in all these colours.
I have none to sell, indeed, I am desperately looking for kind souls who, copyright acknowledged, are prepared to supply hi-res images of items, for the data-base.
Rosalin is pink, topaz is a smokey colour. etc = exceptionally today's colour will be.... ;D ;D
Nowt wrong with your Dad's mantra, so long as long as he is not Henry Ford, "You can have any colour you like, as long as it is black" ;D ;D
He should have owned Rosice....
Cathy, yes please... It was a fluke, I was able to id this pattern, as I explained to Pamela, earlier.
Can you please indicate, from what year CC started to produce this pattern? By chance, it was 1939?
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: rosieposie on August 08, 2008, 08:34:28 PM
Well Marcus, if you tell me how I do High resolution pics, I will do them for you.  Most of mine have little square 'feet' at the corners of the foot, so they stand proud of the table.

Dad's name was Henry, but not Ford!

A couple of my pieces came fron Australia (eBay!)......I thought I was bringing them 'home'!

Cheers and thanks for all the helpful info. :)
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Cathy B on August 09, 2008, 11:24:31 AM
Hi Marcus, Rosie!

Marcus, the side lever gear for the first of these patterns was ordered between 28 June 36 and 8 July 36. (!) I'm not sure how long it would take for the finished product to arrive in the shops after that date.

Dome footed vases, 8" and 4", a non-footed salad like the one in the back here (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9434), and non-footed 'nappies' (Crown's term for what Americans call a 'berry bowl' and Aussies called a 'sweets bowl'), were all ordered on 28 June 36. The 'footed sundae' (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9442) with a catalogue number of 1251, and a rose bowl 1228/9 were ordered on 8 July. Some of the forms had been torn from the records, so there may have been more as well.

Might this suggest an earlier date for the Hermanshütte production?

Crown used to pay someone to travel around Europe picking up interesting patterns for copying (information again from Tariff Hearing files). This is why Crown's Grimwade Crystal tends to look like Inwald or Webb made years earlier.

Rosie, do you have a record of which pieces you bought from Australia? In general, the Australian ones appear mostly in clear, green and amber - I've never seen any in the Australian blues, emerald green, citron or any of the other obviously Australian colours, but it wouldn't surprise me if something turned up one day. There are plenty of the Hermanshütte pattern here as well, so some of them might have been going home, to the Northern Hemisphere, anyway. :) Love your collection, by the way!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: rosieposie on August 14, 2008, 07:33:12 AM
I have been looking through the records for my green 'Squared Eye' glass, (How lovely to have a name to put to it!) to see what had come from Australia, and it seems it was a large bowl....funnily it is slightly deeper and more rotund than the other two large bowls, and a little batch of three small bowls as well.  Some of the small bowls are marginally flatter and wider than most of them, and it might have been those, but I can't be sure.  I think one of the medium size flat plates came from Australia, but I can't be certain.

I was pipped to the post the other night for a beautiful arch footed plate in this pattern. The winner was someone in Australia, was that you Cathy B? >:D  If it was, enjoy!  I am as green as the glass plate with envy!!
Thank you for the kind words about the collection :)......I love it and use it a lot. What items do you have in your set?  Have you got any of the small flat side plates?  That is the one piece that I never seem to see for sale.
There is an interesting variation on a theme on eBay at the moment, item http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160270125814
Have a look, it is in amber and is in Australia.  There is also a green glass bowl coming up, and I have just bought a pink set! Now I know it comes in other colours, I suppose I will have to have them all!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Cathy B on August 16, 2008, 08:49:25 AM
No, it wasn't me - I'm busy being completely skint at the moment after spending way too much on damaged Carnival glass, and other tuition pieces* :) Mind you, I probably know the buyer!

Rosie, the piece you link to is a shape I'm very familiar with. Crown called it a rose bowl, and it turns up in Australia inn two very slightly different shapes - the one shown, and one with the tabs more flared. I have both versions, including one which I bought from the UK. My guess is that the one shown is Australian and the vase with the more flared shape, which has slightly better lines and is more elegant, is the Stölzle.

Mod: Spelling corrected.  :P

My camera has died  :cry: otherwise I'd get a photograph comparing the two.

(*Tuition glass = glass you buy because you want to learn something, not because you actually want them...Alternatively, the junk glass you buy out of compulsion, just to teach you to be more choosy in the future.)
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: rosieposie on August 16, 2008, 09:18:11 AM
OK Cathy, you are exonerated!!
Quote
(*Tuition glass = glass you buy because you want to learn something, not because you actually want them...Alternatively, the junk glass you buy out of compulsion, just to teach you to be more choosy in the future.)
[/color]
I have been there Cathy, I keep going back, and have cupboards full of the stuff.......mostly compulion driven with very little 'Tuition', and certainly not much choosiness!!

Thanks for the info about the Rose Bowl.....now, since I 'happened upon' the GMB, I really am getting some proper 'Tuition'!

Sorry to hear of the death of your camera.......bereavement is always hard, and my heart goes out to you. The trouble is, you will buy a far more sophisticated replacement, and then you will have to get familiar with a whole lot of new buttons and gadgets that it comes with, and you will end up hankering after your old first Box Brownie!!!!!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Jay on August 24, 2008, 12:17:11 PM
Holland is so full of them we can't give them away!
Han and I call them 'fish pattern' for shorthand and had always been pretty sure that they are from Sklo.
There really isn't any other factory which could have produced so much of this stuff and sold it in Holland.
It appears in piles with Baroque pattern and Teplitz and you could by most items for 2 euros. Amber and clear are both common, other colours just occassionally.
In our collection we also have the cheese dish and cover in amber.
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Cathy B on August 26, 2008, 03:05:25 AM
 :hiclp: Wonderful, Jay! What's the best auction house to use to buy from Holland?
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Jay on August 26, 2008, 05:10:13 AM
All Dutch sales go via Marktplaats.nl
As for 'real' auctions...

well, at these prices there are only market stalls interested, not Christies! LOL

Let me know if you need a hand!
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Tigerchips on December 11, 2008, 09:20:52 PM
Interesting piece...
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/mc/unknown/decoladyhead1.jpg
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/mc/unknown/decoladyhead4.jpg

It seems to be the same pattern, i presume the head fits on top of the other bit?
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: rosieposie on December 11, 2008, 10:42:48 PM
WoW Tigerchips!!! What is it, and where do I get one, and if I get one, what do I do with it???? :o
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: krsilber on December 12, 2008, 01:20:49 AM
What a cool pattern!  The head thingy looks like a smoking set to me.  A cigarette holder plus ashtray.  Or?
Title: Re: (Unusual) Green Charger / Lid? Uranium or not?
Post by: Tigerchips on December 12, 2008, 10:36:59 AM
WoW Tigerchips!!! What is it, and where do I get one, and if I get one, what do I do with it???? :o

You'll get one from black poppy if they want to sell it, or, if it hasn't already been sold.
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/

What a cool pattern!  The head thingy looks like a smoking set to me.  A cigarette holder plus ashtray.  Or?

Not sure, I'll give them an email...