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Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: jakgene on June 25, 2011, 02:05:10 PM

Title: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: jakgene on June 25, 2011, 02:05:10 PM
I added this Ebay item  no  160608967072  to my watch list I think only yesterday, listed with a start price of £4.99 . Just looked and it has sold for a buy it now price of £200.
Just wondering what is it and why it is worth so much ?
does anyone know??

JAK

Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: millarart on June 25, 2011, 02:15:52 PM
wow ive not got a clue, but that was a great price for the seller, but then why did they know to put such a buy it now price, maybe theyve got too much for it or maybe they sold it too cheap, look forward to the answer
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: jakgene on June 25, 2011, 02:17:42 PM
I would guess that someone offered them that amount to convert it to a buy it now price and sell it to them. It started off as a normal auction listing - that is why I thought it must be something very special!
JAK
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Andy on June 25, 2011, 02:17:49 PM
Jak, i saw that one, i believe its an unusual early Mdina fish vase. Most likely a Michael Harris piece.
Im sure a few experts on here will be able to confirm this.
Andy  :D
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: obscurities on June 25, 2011, 03:23:03 PM
wow ive not got a clue, but that was a great price for the seller, but then why did they know to put such a buy it now price, maybe theyve got too much for it or maybe they sold it too cheap, look forward to the answer
My experience is that if they have added a buy it now for a buyer, it is generally lower than it would have sold for, as the buyer is looking to eliminate the bidding process, and competitors willing to pay more.

Craig
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Greg. on June 25, 2011, 03:37:13 PM
Looks like an early Fish to me, in a desirable colourway, I would imagine should have made twice that if the auction had run its natural course!
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: flying free on June 25, 2011, 03:50:17 PM
I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure as well that this is an early, rare fish by Michael Harris.
Well....that buyer got lucky.
m
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 25, 2011, 04:06:29 PM
 ::)

It's a sad fact of life that some folk started doing this - and the sellers have to take responsibility for it.
If they didn't agree to this practice, it wouldn't happen.  :grrr:

And now a lot of folk, who heartily disapprove of doing it, are driven to do it themselves if they actually want a piece, in order to pre-empt somebody else doing it.

If you find you're seriously interested in a piece being sold by somebody who will do it, it might as well be to you as somebody else.

I hate it, I really, really hate it. But I have done it once. (not this bit).
It was rather nerve-wracking - I knew from the seller's willingness to close the auction they were already a bit dodgy.

But - if it's up with a BIN - there is still a window for somebody else to pop in and click on it.

(I know, it's happened - the potential buyer was furious!  >:D >:D >:D )
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Murfin on June 25, 2011, 04:38:40 PM
 I sold the lolly pop Mdina/ Isle of Wight vase for £200. If you want it please don't watch it, bid on it. I wouldn't have been able to put a buy it now on if a bid had been placed and lets face it starting at £4.99 it was worth a click on the bid button as well as the watch button. I didn't know what it was and I am happy with the profit made. I am not dodgy and I am fed up with the amount of emails I'm getting with "advice". So the person who contacted me had more knowledge than I have and good luck to them. I shall continue to look in Charity shops for interesting glass.
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: flying free on June 25, 2011, 04:39:59 PM
It's not the sellers who encourage this Sue...I have recently been approached for two BINS and refused, only to see both pieces (with many many watchers) go unsold.
The second piece, a ceramic, the buyer came back and offered less than my start price.  I accepted it because he was nice and I wasn't that bothered about the piece.  I refused the other.  But from now on, I am  tempted to accept offers.  I currently have a piece on that I listed low to encourage bidding - it has tens of watchers literally, but not a single bid.  Everyone hoping to bid at the base price at the last minute I guess, which is what happened to another (rare) ceramic piece I had on two weeks ago.
So please don't blame the sellers.  I buy as well so I am not just a seller   ;D  -
m
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 25, 2011, 05:09:22 PM
All's fair in love and all that. It was an honest ebay transaction. The seller is happy, the buyer is undoubtedly happy, ebay is happy. It didn't just disappear, as so often happens. even to items with bids on.

Welcome to the board Murfin.
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 25, 2011, 05:11:04 PM
I don't sell (yet), so mostly I see myself as a "victim" here - scarce things I *really* want and would pay well for at the auction end, vanishing early for a lot less than I'd have paid.

So the one time I did do it, it was something scarce and I gave the seller a price it probably would not have reached - it was what my maximum bid would have been.

But I'm a collector - I'm not someone who wants to underpay for something in order to sell it on at a profit. Clearly your BIN people weren't that interested m, odd.

As to watchers...
I rarely ever put a bid on early, unless it is to pre-empt the auction being pulled - but the trouble with that is that it draws attention to the auction from my competition - especially if it's something with a high start price.
I'm a last minute sniper with my top, serious bid. I don't go for things I don't really, really want to own.

And I do watch a lot of stuff I'm not interested in buying - I want to see if it sells and for how much. It's part of learning about the current market.

I still blame the sellers though. There will always be those offering their "bait".
It is up to the sellers to reject them and let the auction run fairly to the end for everybody -

But as you can see, it simply doesn't work - I've done it in order to get something I really wanted - and you're saying you'd be inclined to accept - all this with both of us disapproving of it.

I didn't say the sellers encourage it, m, but I do say they're the ones with the power to stop it.

At least in the auction under discussion, the price was fine.
You've not been diddled Murfin. And you did not go "dodgy" with selling off-site, you did a BIN - in which somebody else could have pipped your buyer. And, as you so correctly said - if somebody had stuck a bid on, you couldn't have done it.

I suppose there are really two issues here - putting an agreed BIN on, which can be annoying for those who miss out, but is all above board, or selling off-site which is really dodgy.

Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: flying free on June 25, 2011, 06:12:18 PM
I just think it's a 'dog-eat-dog' world out there   :24:  And as regards my items, I assume the watchers are just that, watchers.  Luckily for me the vase in question is lovely so I am as happy to keep it and sell it at a later date if it doesn't sell.  As my OH is wont to say on a regular basis (especially when people start talking about what houses are worth for some reason) 'something is only worth what someone will pay for it'.  We both come from a dealing background, him from the 'having the commodity people want to buy' and me from the' having the money and deciding what to buy with it' so I am well aware of market forces and don't get too het up about it  ;D

With regards off-site selling or buying I would never do it - when I first started buying on ebay a long time ago, I unwittingly bought something off-site.  The item ended and I only saw it as it ended on my screen.  I offered the asking price and she accepted. The seller didn't list it as a buy it now but just sent a paypal request which I naively paid without really realising what I was doing.  The item arrived and was damaged despite me having been assured it was perfect.  I hadn't a clue how to go about retrieving my funds so just left it and kept the item and of course had no way of leaving negative feedback. 
So I agree, that's a very dodgy way to do business.
m
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: obscurities on June 25, 2011, 07:47:44 PM
Murfin, Welcome to the board.....

Congrats to the buyer of the vase......

With a feedback rating of 8 on ebay many of the people who contacted you probably had your best interest at heart.... but it would appear you have a different take on it..... I am sure a portion of them were disappointed that you let it be purchased for less than they were willing to, and planned on, bidding for the item.....  Many die hard ebayers are also die hard collectors, and it is all about the search for a rare piece......

Many new sellers are not in tune to some of the practices on ebay.....  such as BIN offers to clear it off of the market quickly and reduce the price being paid for an item........... and without prior knowledge of other activity, I would view a seller with 8 feedbacks and 6 weeks on ebay as a new seller.......

I have been involved in over 2000 ebay transactions and many regular ebay bidders (and sellers), myself included, watch an item and never bid early...... early bids spark early interest and increases early bidding activity..... generally driving the price up faster than most serious collectors/buyers would like...  I am generally a buyer that bids once, bids aggressively to buy an item, and almost always bids at the very end of activity.  I never bid early.....  even if a seller says they may pull an auction if there is no early activity......  I have watched far too many items sell for far too much money because a couple of early bidders were more focused on "Winning" than they were on the logic of what they are paying for said item.....

As a buyer I have also made offers that were accepted and purchased items early on with a BIN....  In every case, without exception, I purchased a much desired item for less than I would have paid for it........  As a buyer I saw far too many items disappear in front of my eyes such as this one did for some people.....  If I really want it, I will make a run at it with a new seller....  It never works on someone who has been selling for a long time... they understand the reason for the offer......

One of the reasons that ebay has added the counters for watchers and page hits for sellers is to allow them to gauge activity on an item..... lots of hits and lots of watchers generally translates into lots of bids near the end....... not always, but usually.

I am sure it is your choice to have added the BIN due to the fact that there was not a bid on the item, but it was also your choice to have let the item run.....  You can't blame bidders for not bidding early and making that the reason you accepted an offer of a BIN......  If that is your practice you will likely sell a lot of items early and for less than they would have brought......

I am glad you are happy with your profit..... really I am......

I personally would have been happy with more.... and I am not greedy........  

Craig

Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: millarart on June 25, 2011, 07:54:41 PM
I sold the lolly pop Mdina/ Isle of Wight vase for £200. If you want it please don't watch it, bid on it. I wouldn't have been able to put a buy it now on if a bid had been placed and lets face it starting at £4.99 it was worth a click on the bid button as well as the watch button. I didn't know what it was and I am happy with the profit made. I am not dodgy and I am fed up with the amount of emails I'm getting with "advice". So the person who contacted me had more knowledge than I have and good luck to them. I shall continue to look in Charity shops for interesting glass.
well said you :hiclp:, your happy and the winning bidder is happy, a profits a profit, good for you, cash is keen,
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: glassobsessed on June 26, 2011, 02:56:21 PM
Interesting, the last cobalt blue fish vase that sold on ebay which happens to be this one (https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/EarlyMdinaGlass#5473340087649283154) auctioned for £150. It too was not described as a Mdina fish vase and had a photo that required a little effort to see what it was. Spending £200 with a newish seller on the evidence of not the best photo (sorry Murfin) is a risk for the buyer. Until the item arrives they will have little idea whether their judgement was sound or not.

Selling on ebay is not that simple, all of us who do, whether we sell a lot or a little will have learnt a lot along the way, from the psychology of selling (still grappling with that myself) to taking good photographs let alone what to sell in the first place..... It is a steep learning curve.

I recently rejected an offer on an item I was selling and the final hammer price was less than the offer I turned down. A few weeks later I agonised over another offer I received on one of my auctions, it was a realistic offer but the item was quite unusual and I had hoped for a little more. In the end I rejected the offer and the item auctioned for the price I was hoping for. You take the rough with the smooth.

John





Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: glassobsessed on June 28, 2011, 10:39:09 AM
For those of you who have 'read between the lines' it will come as little surprise that I bought it.

Here are some photos, it is not from the fabled cobalt blue pot of glass that was melted in the early days at Mdina. It is however an early fish vase made by Michael Harris presumably at Mdina (though not necessarily so). As is normal with these vases one side bears the impression of the marver against which it was flattened. The base is ground but unpolished (the first I remember seeing that was not polished) and dimensions are roughly 17cm wide by 15cm tall.

As for making offers, it is a practice I am uncomfortable with too. I think this is the 4th time I have made an offer or enquired about making one. One time it backfired, I made an offer for an item, the seller then placed a reserve at the level of my offer. I eventually 'won' the item at auction, paying the reserve price but the next highest bidder was a lot less than this reserve price. Without that reserve (and offer) I would have paid considerably less.

As for those interested in the value of this fish vase and whether Murfin received a fair price they should note that there is some damage. At some stage the vase has taken a tumble and there are several small impact marks, not something that is easy to distinguish against the 'background noise' of the item and not something that I would expect someone who was not experienced with glass to recognise. I am extremely happy with my purchase, I hope Murfin is still happy with the sale and I hope he will use the message board again in the future.

This is the kind of glass that gives me a physical reaction, wobbly knees, cold sweats and a visceral churning in my guts. Just call me sad!

John
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 28, 2011, 10:59:17 AM
It it just blue and amethyst - or is there clear glass in it?

Interesting  John - a two-tone one - fits with your pink and blue swirl "thing" - and I bet that was unexpected!!!!!!
(heehee, my Precious Baby Fish is sort of multi-coloured, as it has silver chloride effects - there's clear, brown, yellow, teal and cobalt - and iridescent bits inside.  :smg: and it's still the smallest Fish known.)

lovely thing, John!
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: glassobsessed on June 28, 2011, 11:08:53 AM
Just blue and amethyst, no clear like the amethyst version of this variation in the design: https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/EarlyMdinaGlass#5473340076203262786

Which pink and blue swirl thing Sue (sorry, you lost me there)?

John
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 28, 2011, 11:18:52 AM
Attenuated bottles? Chargers? or am i just confuddled, is it only blue and white swirls you go for?
(I'm really not keen on either, I leave those to you and Suzy!)
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 28, 2011, 11:25:18 AM
It's lovely John  :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: glassobsessed on June 28, 2011, 11:44:33 AM
I see what you mean Sue, a general thing rather than a specific one. ;D

Thanks Christine but I can't take credit for making it.....

John
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Greg. on June 28, 2011, 01:07:46 PM
Very nice item indeed John, bet it sits well amongst your other early pieces of Mdina.

Greg
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Andy on June 28, 2011, 01:20:45 PM
Very nice. It sounds like a very good charity shop find for Murfin, and it sounds like everyone is happy with the results.
My suggestion to Murfin is to get a better camera, looks great in your photos John.

 :thup:
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 28, 2011, 02:33:26 PM
This is only the second early Fish found with more than one colour, isn't it, John?

(I've just got to poke PBF in here, just for ease of comparison for your viewers, you understand.)
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: Lustrousstone on June 28, 2011, 02:59:16 PM
Is is Mdina or is it IoW though? The colours look more IoW
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 28, 2011, 03:21:35 PM
I imagine only John can tell if it's pink or purple or what exact shade of blue it is - it's in his mitts!

I do however think by the time MH was at IoWSG, his technique had improved well beyond this charming slightly "crude" level. He did become incredibly proficient very early on in his hot glass work.
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: glassobsessed on June 28, 2011, 05:02:37 PM
Undoubtably Mdina but maybe with the faint possibility of before (if that is not a contradiction). Have to agree that by the time MH started at IoWSG his technical skill with hot glass had improved no end.
Oh and yes it does look good with the other bits of Mdina I have hanging around...... They do look rather fine in a group. :smg:

John
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: chopin-liszt on June 28, 2011, 05:13:44 PM
Tim Harris told me my PBF was '68 - you can see it's really a bit wonky, as a whole piece.

And your new Fish has the double strap across the front - I'm positive that "went" quite early on.
Title: Re: what is this - Isle of wight glass - must be special?
Post by: langhaugh on June 28, 2011, 06:17:18 PM
There's another side to changing an auction to BIN for an agreed price. I've never asked a seller of a piece that starts below the piece's worth--and I know that's not a precise figure-- to change it to a BIN price. I have, however, asked for a BIN price for a piece that is listed at auction way above its normal price, often when the piece has gone through a 7 or even 30 day cycle without being sold and is then relisted.  Often I've waited until the seller has two pieces I'm interested in and offered a deal for them both. I offer what I think is a fair price, as I find that there are a few dealers who turn up a fair bit of stuff I like and I have no desire to alienate them, I really want the pieces, and, as these sellers have been fair to me in the past, I want to be fair to them. Sue is right, though, you have to make sure you're first in line with the BIN.

I sympathize with Murfin.  Most of my bids are snipes, which are my attempt to keep the purchase price low.  I can understand why a seller would accept what seems a very good offer to guarantee a profit.  

Great acquisition John and well spotted.

David