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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Anik R on January 15, 2012, 03:47:07 PM

Title: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on January 15, 2012, 03:47:07 PM
At the market this morning, I found a Miloslav Klinger ashtray in citrin and virginit (my favourite colour combination).  I had bought it with the intention to sell, but had a change of heart at home.  It's a really wonderful piece -- and so much bigger than I had imagined it would be!

It's 12cm high and a whopping 18cm wide.  It weighs 1287g.  The last photo shows the ashtray in comparison to a 15cm Schrotter 'bullet' or 'lens'.

Oh, one of the best bits is the 'damage' -- it seems the finisher was a little over-zealous with the chamfering, resulting in an abstract flower at one end.  I think it's super. ;D
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: bOBA on January 15, 2012, 04:05:23 PM
A really attractive piece Anik. ZBS did similar pieces with match-holders too I think. I am also wondering if this is possibly technically a pipe holder? I have not seen one in CGR pictured in use... maybe you have, as an ashtray, I am maybe not correct but I know there is a pipe holder in Raban from around this period ..... only a thought, a nice thing whatever! I like the magnificent unapologetic sculptural size!

Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on January 15, 2012, 04:17:14 PM
A pipeholder?  That never crossed my mind... how magnificent!

Judging by the general size, and the size of the 'cigarette' rest (which is large enough to hold my chubby finger) I think you might just be right.  There is a similar piece on the  Detesk (http://www.detesk.cz/cs/virtualni-muzeum/autorske-objekty/) site, a little smaller and a slightly different shape, which is described as an ashtray, hence my assumption that mine was as well.

I'll look through the CGR.  I'm sure it must be there, somewhere.

Thank you for your kind comments, Robert.  Greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: rocco on January 15, 2012, 08:17:06 PM
A really beautiful ZBS piece, Anik!
A seller here at the fleamarket has one in emerald green which I would have bought if it hadn't been engraved with some flowers :ac1:

BTW, link to CGR 1979/11 (http://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/Glasrevue197911?authkey=Gv1sRgCOmX1Yv6vYGHqwE#5447305345829325618) where it is depicted used as an ashtray, PN 71079/18cm -- if they are right this wasn't designed by Klinger but by Josef Cvrcek (who is featured as designer of the famous vase with two openings on the previous page in that CGR issue as well :huh2:).

Michael
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: bOBA on January 15, 2012, 08:37:12 PM
Quite correct Michael  Iwas thinking of this Zemek piperack https://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/ModernBohemianGlassArtia1963?authkey=Gv1sRgCIfKjerM-NrVDA#5580926656415873410


I am sure CGR is accurate in the attributions,


Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on January 15, 2012, 08:41:21 PM
Michael, thank you for the link!  I'm still going through the 60s at the moment.

The attribution is surprising. Then again, I've noticed that some issues of the CGR are riddled with mistakes.  Detesk has it attributed to Klinger, which seems correct.

The cigarette in the holder is also surprising.  After Robert's comments, I took a closer look and decided he's right in saying it might be for a pipe...  Maybe pipes were out of fashion by the late 70s, hence the photo with the cigi?  :spls:

Edit:  I cross posted with Robert...  Robert, are you being cynical with your CGR accurate attributions statement?

Edit again:  I think I meant 'sacrastic' and not 'cynical' with my last comment. 
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: rocco on January 15, 2012, 09:17:40 PM
That is an interesting topic regarding misattributions in CGR -- I really can't tell if there are a lot.
I have not come across any obvious ones so far (but in many cases CGR is the only source of information for me, so I tend to believe what is written there :usd:).

The purpose of your piece -- in the one I saw here, the interior part would have been too narrow to hold a pipe I think...

Michael
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: bOBA on January 15, 2012, 09:27:22 PM
I don't know about this attribution and to look at the piece it could be either designer!  But it has some of the elegance of the Josef Cvrcek vase Michael mentions too.... CGR should have this attribution correct by 1979, we would hope... even if there are quite a few errors... wasn't it designed much earlier than the quoted article? I have to agree with Michael about the width of bowl on the ashtray being an issue against pipes now I look at it, you need a round space for a pipe to rest on....  If glass study was all obvious I guess we would have nothing to say!


Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on January 15, 2012, 09:40:23 PM
Ha...  well maybe it was for a lady's pipe. :usd:

As for mistakes in the CGR, I have noticed a few.  Then again, I've only managed to make my way to 1972 when it comes to pressed glass, and 1962 when it comes to Skrdlovice. 

Why would this piece, and all similar pieces, be so widely and readily attributed to Klinger?  I wonder what later editions of the CGR say?  It looks like further research is needed on my part.  Not that I mind, of course. :)
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: ahremck on January 15, 2012, 11:06:07 PM
All I can say is Kralik might be light on the ground around your way BUT!!!!!!

What a fascinating item congratulations.  Wish we had fleamarkets here but they are as rare as hen's teeth.

Ross
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on January 16, 2012, 05:36:29 AM
I think I might have been propagating a misconception.  The 1983/2 CGR attributes these pieces (with the side hole and double hole) to Josef Cvrcek.  Jindrich, in his Ceskoslovenske Sklo DVD, also attributes the design (or a similar design) to Cvrcek. 

BUT THEN in the 1984/3 CGR, items attributed to Cvrcek just a year earlier are attributed to Klinger.  From the editions Jindrich has available, I do not believe these pieces appear in any later CGRs.

 :ho:  Mistakes are present in later CGRs.  Which attribution is correct?


P.S. Ross, the seller had 3 more citrin and virginit pieces. The 'famous' flat vase with 2 holes, a plainer vase, and a basket.  I was offered all 4 pieces for 100 PLN.  Unfortunately, the other two vases had multiple surface scratches on them, so I passed. I'm sure there are Kralik and Loetz items at my market, but I just haven't noticed.  I go through the market like thunder, only looking for post-war Czech items. My husband went with me for the first time yesterday -- he never knew I could move so fast and was shocked that I was ready to return home after 20 minutes.  :usd:   I'm very efficient.




Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on January 18, 2012, 02:37:05 PM
Mistakes are present in my posts too...  Klinger's first name was Miroslav and not Miloslav.   :pb:
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on January 19, 2012, 07:26:53 PM
I'm such a twit...  :spls:    It is Miloslav, with an l, not an r.  

Now if someone would kindly point me in the direction I left my brain, many would be highly appreciative.
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: rocco on February 11, 2012, 10:48:09 AM
No Skrdlovice today for me here on the Viennese fleamarket at minus 12°C :o
But I found this nice ZBS Neodymium ashtray, the version Robert mentioned with the extra compartment for matches or cigarettes...

I guess we still are not sure about the designer of these?

Michael
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on February 11, 2012, 11:07:32 AM
Though neither of our ashtrays are on Jindrich's "Ceskoslovenske Sklo" DVD, he has got the similar-styled vase and a pipe-holder (or maybe it's an ashtray?) attributed to Josef Cvrcek. 

So I still don't quite know. :-\
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on February 11, 2012, 12:35:52 PM
I'm terribly sorry... I just realised my above post is a repetition of what I've said earlier.   :pb:
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: rocco on February 11, 2012, 01:37:45 PM
No problem, Anik -- thanks for your reply!

In Lesley Jackson's book is a picture of my piece in Citrin colour, but without mentioning a designer, unfortunately...

Michael
Title: Re: ZBS Miloslav Klinger ashtray c.1965
Post by: Anik R on February 11, 2012, 09:19:20 PM
Michael, I've just found your ashtray (in a different colourway) in the  1988/8 CGR (https://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/Glasrevue19888?authkey=Gv1sRgCMv-kJbm5Ie7Pw#5551326524652594594).  It's attributed to Miloslav Klinger, and it's pattern number 7180.