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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: Jayne on July 24, 2012, 02:37:47 AM

Title: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on July 24, 2012, 02:37:47 AM
I have 3 sets of candle holders which I assumed were Nuutajarvi Notsjo, Kastehelmi (Teardrop) Pattern designed by Oiva Toikka but they are all slightly different. The colours look more different in the photos than in reality.

I read somewhere on the board a topic where someone had seen very similar candle holders with a different maker label but I can't see it for looking.

Does anyone know how to tell which is Nuutajarvi?
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Ivo on July 24, 2012, 06:18:18 AM
we did have a discussion on this board some time ago on the sun catchers with a similar design which turned out to be Norwegian - Hadeland I think.
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 24, 2012, 06:32:40 AM
Cascade possibly. I suspect the four smaller lighter ones are not Nuutajärvi
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: flying free on July 24, 2012, 06:34:03 AM
Just having a look round as I also have a pair of these but a different shape to yours- mine have a design 'device' whereby they stack and if I was comparing I would say that those on the left are the comparable colour to all the pieces I have had.  I do wonder if turquoise was issued and reissued again a bit later perhaps in the paler colour? 
There is more information on the board somewhere as the colour of these was discussed at some point in the last couple of years.
meanwhile I thought I'd put this link on here that I've found - interview with Oiva Toikka
http://www.craftscouncil.org.uk/files/crafts-magazine/taster-articles/birdman-oiva-toikka.pdf
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on July 24, 2012, 10:27:06 AM
My thanks to all for your input.

To add, they are all of the exact same size diameter Christine, the central one may be half a mm shorter than the other two, and possibly weigh slightly less. This central one also has a thin sharpish rim, where the left one has almost no rim, and the right one a comparably thicker rim.
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 24, 2012, 10:56:47 AM
I meant smaller in that the two on the left are distinctly more butch than the four on the right
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: rocco on July 24, 2012, 11:36:28 AM
I would go with Ivo and suspect that neither is Nuutajärvi...
Among the more than 200 Kastehelmi pieces in the >> laatutavara webshop (http://www.laatutavara.com/eng/index.php?page=search&hakuteksti=kastehelmi&Submit=Find) is none in this shape.
All pieces from this range I have seen so far have the pattern all over, with no undecorated areas.

Michael
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on July 24, 2012, 12:08:50 PM
20th Century Glass has them in their Encyclopedia...

http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/scandinavian_glass/nuutajarvi_glass/nuutajarviglass_home.htm
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: rocco on July 24, 2012, 01:53:03 PM
Jayne, I certainly could be wrong...

But since they seem to appear almost exclusively in England (and not in Finland), and only in amber and blue despite of the much more abundant colourless version, maybe Sue is right with Cascade glass?

I had some of the small bowls with Arabia label, and they were definately brown (see attached pic) and not amber like the candle holders on Wayne's site.
The small dishes (like >> these (http://www.laatutavara.com/eng/index.php?page=product&id=15510&ryhma=0&aliryhma=3)) I have, too, and they don't have the raised undecorated rim like the ones in 20th Century Glass encyclopedia.

Since neither of these shapes is on the laatutavara site, I would like to see a labeled piece before I am convinced these are Nuutajärvi 8)

Michael
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on July 24, 2012, 02:02:05 PM
Rocco thank-you I will take all your points into consideration. :)
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: glassobsessed on July 24, 2012, 08:59:11 PM
Here you go Jayne: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,11652.msg273154.html#msg273154

I suspect they were made under licence by Cascade, perhaps a similar arrangement to that they had with Holmegaard to make Gulvases.

John
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on July 24, 2012, 11:36:05 PM
John thank-you, that was exactly the thread I had a vague memory of seeing. Still I have 3 pairs in different shapes, would Cascade have made them all?
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: KevinH on July 25, 2012, 12:07:16 AM
If they are Cascade, made under licence, should the thread go to British & Irish forum or stay here in connection with Nuutajarvi ???
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: rosieposie on July 25, 2012, 05:32:39 PM
This type of pattern seems to pop up all over the place with differnt labels Jayne.
I suppose if the label is missing it must be tempting to call them Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi. The word is Dew Drop BTW, not Tear Drop.....just for completeness.

Do any of you have a Nuutajarvi catalogue?  That might well bring the whole issue to a satisfactory conclusion.
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Anne on August 15, 2012, 09:19:31 PM
Does this help at all? http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,11652.msg273154.html#msg273154
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on August 16, 2012, 12:56:48 AM
Thanks Anne, but doesn't really help to differentiate at all.
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: marie anne on September 13, 2012, 03:35:17 PM
Hi Jayne,
I've had the blue candleholder for a while and assumed it was Nuutajarvi.  I recently bought the amber one which has a Cascade label.  The amber one has a thicker inner rim and a thinner outer rim and I think looks like your middle pair.  My amber and blue candle holders are definitely from different moulds.
I'd love to know who Cascade were or who traded as Cascade.  I've read the other threads and it sounds like Chance Glass is ruled out.  I tried to look up Cascade as a trade name but am no wiser.
I'm adding this 'pair' to my growing collection of odd candle holders.  :)
Marie.
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on November 12, 2012, 03:10:50 AM
Thank-you very much Marie Anne, I will get all my pairs out again, and do some more comparisons. :)
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 13, 2012, 12:23:42 PM
'Scuse my probable ignorance, but does the real Nutajaarvi design not have tiny "tails" on at least one of the rings of blobs - so they're a true "drop shape"? And other blobs are different shapes too. I've just taken a couple of pics of a clear plate I have, but will need to process them. The design is completely different to these pieces which have all round blobs.
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 13, 2012, 04:39:20 PM
 ;D

I know it's not a candleholder. It's a sideplate.
I have no idea of the relevance or if "real" candleholders did have the whole design or just the round blobs.
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: rocco on November 13, 2012, 04:44:48 PM
Sue, your plate doesn't look right at all...
Here is a link to a high resolution pic of a Kastehelmi plate on the laatutavara site: http://www.laatutavara.com/images/18524.jpg (http://www.laatutavara.com/images/18524.jpg)
And one of a big bowl: http://www.laatutavara.com/images/13407.jpg (http://www.laatutavara.com/images/13407.jpg)
Only round blobs.

I still think that neither of the small candleholders is Nuutajärvi, though 8)

Michael
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 13, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
 ???

That matches my candle holders and a blue ashtray I have.
So, if the one with different drop shapes isn't Nuutajarvi, what on earth might it be?
This isn't my area at all!

What sort of site is laatutavara? Is it official?
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: rocco on November 13, 2012, 04:54:27 PM
Laatutavara.com is an online shop for vintage Finnish glass -- and one of the best resources for research in this area, because they have about everything ever produced by the major Finnish glassworks for sale.
This is one of the reasons I doubt that the candleholders in question are Nuutajärvi -- not a single piece on that site.

Sorry, no idea who may have made your plate...

Michael
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 13, 2012, 05:47:22 PM
Couldn't find my way about that site at all...  ::) brain awol - and technosaurus in the first place.  :-[
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: rocco on November 13, 2012, 06:35:49 PM
Sorry, better use >> this link (http://www.laatutavara.com/eng/index.php?page=search&hakuteksti=kastehelmi&Submit=Find), then it is quite easy to navigate around using the names of the designers / factories at the right, or the search function...

Michael
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: chopin-liszt on November 13, 2012, 06:44:19 PM
thank-you  :) - I'll try again when I'm feeling a bit brighter...  :-[
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: px on November 13, 2012, 07:25:27 PM
There's one candle holder in Iittala/Nuutajärvi Kastehelmi series - it is the cone like one that you can turn around and use as a vase.
There's also a candle cuff and a very small plate you could use as a candle base.
Since Iittala began to reproduce Kastehelmi around 2010/2011 there's a new votive holder in this series.
But; candle holders like the one's that started this discussion, I don't think so. There are picture's of them with Cascade stickers. There are a lot of other items around easily thought to be Kastehelmi. It seems the kind of pattern was very popular.

Here's a little info. :)  https://secure.iittala.com/web/myiittala/130 (https://secure.iittala.com/web/myiittala/130)
Title: Re: Will the real Nuutajarvi Kastehelmi Candle Holder please stand up?
Post by: Jayne on June 16, 2013, 12:32:25 AM
Thank-you everyone for your comments and research.

Interesting px thank-you, I noticed in that blog they conject that the range had 25 pieces at it's most extensive, but only describe about 13 or 14 pieces and 13 are in the diagrams.

Rocco, I had a quick look at the online shop, but I don't think it can be taken as proof something never existed simply because it's not in the shop albeit a well respected shop. I did see these for sale though :
http://www.laatutavara.com/images/22844.jpg

Also quick reminder of the 20th Century Glass shop which is also a well respected shop still carries these in it's encyclopedia, once again I agree this is not proof of anything.
http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/scandinavian_glass/nuutajarvi_glass/nuutajarviglass_home.htm

Onwards with the search.