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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: a-mighty-wind on October 15, 2011, 12:40:34 AM

Title: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please ID = Gray-Stan
Post by: a-mighty-wind on October 15, 2011, 12:40:34 AM
Picked this piece up at local auction. Has a Cluthra look definately has age. The signature is nothing I've seen before. I love the piece, it is well finished and the way the rim is rolled under seems like it took a goos bit of skill. Any Ideas???
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: KevinH on October 15, 2011, 01:49:50 AM
Might be British ... Gray-Stan.

Try dusting the signature with talcum powder and gently wiping off. That should make it clearer and might also highlight a two-digit date.
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: flying free on October 15, 2011, 08:11:08 AM
I'm sure that's Gray Stan as Kevin says.......and now I'm going to have to go away and have a cry  :cry: :mrgreen:
m
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: Frank on October 15, 2011, 11:39:20 AM
Not so sure signature looks Dremel'd to me, which does not necessarily mean it is not an unsigned piece of Gray-Stan. Genuine signature (http://www.ysartglass.com/Otherglass/Images/Graystansig3.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: flying free on October 15, 2011, 12:07:32 PM
ah ....
posted a link to the sig on my piece here for another comparison then.

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,40304.msg223119.html#msg223119

 To be honest I have seen that many and my little piece looks to be a lot thinner glass than the one in the top.  I shall butt out of this topic because I haven't seen enough real live pieces to know to be honest.
I'll dry my tears for now then  ;D and wait and see.
m
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: a-mighty-wind on October 16, 2011, 11:11:51 PM
WOW! That was easy haha....The sig is a definate match to alot of other Gray Stan Examples. I will say it seems pieces of this stuff are hard to come by. Any ideas on value??  I don't know much about European glass and I will say that I learn so much from this site.  You guys are most helpful and all so friendly.  I have a few more interesting pieces that I'll be picking your brains on it the coming months haha.......Can't wait
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: Frank on October 17, 2011, 12:23:40 AM
Signature is a look-like but might be forged as it looks like it was added with an engraving drill... jury is still out... needs more input. The piece itself is closer to Schneider than Gray-Stan in my opinion.
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: KevinH on October 17, 2011, 12:40:34 AM
Frank makes a valid point about the look of the signature.

I would still like to see a better image of the signature. And it would be useful to know the size of the bowl - and the size of the signature too.

I have only one example of Gray Stan and the signature from a distance of about 10 inches / 25 cm appears very neat with fine script. Only with an ultra-close-up photo does it show normal "graining" in the etching.
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: flying free on October 17, 2011, 02:45:00 PM
what is the pontil mark like please?
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: a-mighty-wind on October 17, 2011, 11:44:08 PM
pontil mark is 5/8 of an inch not quite perfectly round and the 1,5 inches outside of that is ground and polished. To me the capitol G in the sig and the way the T is crossed on the right hand side is identical to some examples I have seen on the net. The piece was bought at an auction I work for, the piece was in a box in the attic and was wrapped in a 1962 news paper. If the sig was forged it would have been before then.
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: a-mighty-wind on October 17, 2011, 11:46:00 PM
What would the original sig have been etched with?
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: Frank on October 18, 2011, 12:04:52 AM
Acid
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: KevinH on October 18, 2011, 12:40:20 AM
For info, there are two pics below of the signature (which is approx 3/4 inch / 19mm in width ) on my vase. One pic is from about 10 inch distance and the other is ultra close up.

Note that this signature does not have the hyphen, but with a date of 1928 this ties in quite well with information in Roger Dodsworth's article on Gray-Stan in British Glass Between The Wars.

I hope my example is genuine. :wsh:
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: KevinH on October 18, 2011, 12:44:55 AM
Frank, when you say etched with acid, are you just referring to the "block caps" version? Surely the hand formed sigs were done with a tool of some type, thus accounting for variations on the theme.
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: a-mighty-wind on October 18, 2011, 01:28:22 AM
I agree with Kevin, the hand formed sigs have to use an engraving tool of some sort.....right?
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: nigel benson on October 19, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Hello,

I can understand Frank's reservations, but I have to say whether the mark is right, or wrong, this IS a piece of Gray-Stan in a known and recorded shape. See Parkington Part I, 16 October 1997 lot 373 for a yellow and orange example.

As for the signature, they vary greatly, but can generally be split into two versions, both being produced by use of an engraving tool (wheel? or diamond?). One is small and neat, the other larger and looser in interpretation. Naturally, they vary individually.

Nigel
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: flying free on October 20, 2011, 10:25:41 AM
 :mrgreen:
Wonderful!!  I am jealous and very pleased for you.
m
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: Frank on October 20, 2011, 01:02:35 PM
That's good Nigel, glad you dropped by. It was the stuttering in the tail that suggested Dremel as signing using a diamond point or other tool in a practised hand does not result in such a stutter!
Title: Re: Interesting Charles Schneider Style piece ID Help Please
Post by: a-mighty-wind on October 21, 2011, 11:15:56 PM
Thanks Nigel!!! Maybe the signer was just having on off day.  Now the question is keep or sell? not something I really collect