Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: soledivo on July 30, 2008, 08:46:06 PM
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Hi everyone
I bought this vase at an auction on Friday, I paid £60 for it and I'm really pleased with it.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/fbeufo.jpg) (http://i38.tinypic.com/14tph60.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/6xxf5w.jpg)
1st, I think the vase is suffering from the same symptom as discussed in this topichttp://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,395.0.html
2nd, the pic with the label shows the bottom of the vase has this mottled appearance, am I right to think this is a result of the same problem ?
3rd, regardless of the prob's, I bought this vase (60 quid's a lot to me) because I thought it was such an unusual design for Morano, with no striking colours. The vase is a monster
39cm high, 19 cm wide.
Also it gives me a Seguso label and signature, which I hadn't got already.
I have tried to research the A.V. in the signature but have come up with different answers.
Does anyone know which Seguso works it comes from ?
4th and lastly, sorry for all these questions but, anyone have an idea of value, don't worry if i've paid over the odds, I'm chuffed with it but would be interested to know.
many thanks (again)
martin
""edit"" I almost forgot, can someone tell me what "geode" means ?
thanks again
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The Seguso VA stands for Seguso Vetri d'Arte. I don't know about the mottling. Could it be part of the decoration? Have you tried to clean the vase? Sometimes stubborn stains can be removed by denture cleaner tablets (fill the vase with water and add a couple) or toilet bowl cleaner (the type that clings to the sides).
I don't recognize the vase, so don't know what it should look like.
Anita
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I'm going to try that tomorrow Anita, vinegar didn't work.
as you said you don't recognize the vase, that was my attraction to it, "you never know", syndrome.
thanks though
martin
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A shield label was used by SVA until late 1970's, so your piece is definitely post 70's. I've got an SVA piece with a different label, which I'm pretty sure is from the 1990's, which means your vase could be from some time in the 1980's. It's a nice piece and definitely worth trying to clean
I've tried the solutions (no pun intended) that Anita's suggests, as well as others. It seems different stuff works for different stains and different glass. I've also used something I bought on eBay called "The restorer" by Collector's Secret. It didn't work on everything I tried it on, but it did a good job (at double the recommended concentration although I started with the recommended amounts) on a Gunnel Nyman serpent vase. IMHO, that alone made it a worthwhile purchase.
Good luck.
David
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I forgot to mention that if you use the toilet bowl cleaner, rinse the vase with water first, then let the cleaner drip down the sides. You can let it set for a while, then wipe and clean it with a paper towel. I wrap the paper towel around a bamboo skewer, with a little of the towel hanging off the end, secure the towel with a ring of tape at the top, then swish it like a bottle brush. It is a good way to clean glass that has a mouth too small to get the hand in.
It would be a lot easier if I could get some of the bottle brushes that they used in labs. :)
Anita
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Is the mottling on the inside or the outside? If on the outside, unless it is actually oily, I think it is meant it is meant to be there. It looks like stannous chloride or something similar and I'd be careful of trying to remove it because you could actually damage the surface.
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thanks everyone,
I'm only going to try a very gentle attempt at cleaning, otherwise it stays as is. All part of the vase.
martin
bye the way any idea's on value?
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The signature seems..uhh...a bit scratchy :huh: for a firm such as Seguso. Can anyone confirm it is correct?
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Hi Max a lot of first class engraving looks like that when magnified ,have a look at some of you fine pieces you will notice the difference. JP . HIMAX sounds like a lorry :chky: ;) ;)
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I'm ready to be shot down in flames but,
I've only just realized that the signature is A.V. not V.A. so is Vetri d'Arte correct.
Wouldn't it be V.A.
Where as Artistica Vetreria would fit the A.V.
I'm way out of my depth here, I'm not disrespecting the knowledge of you all, I've just got a bit confused after a lot of reading.
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You are so right. Turning the letters around makes a big difference (hang head in shame). Seguso AV is Arte Vetro. Isn't this Livio Seguso's company? I am not sure. I hope there are some Seguso family experts out there.
Anita
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I'm amazed that it's so easy for me to see what others suggest I see. I saw the label as VA when obviously it's AV.
According to Gable in Murano Magic, there was in existence an Alberto Seguso & C. Arte Vetro (Seguso AV) owned by Alberto Seguso with Napoleone Martinuzzi as director from 1947-1954. Again according to Gable, Seguso Viro was called just that and owned by Giampolo (son of Archimede) and his two sons, Gianandrea and Gianluca.
Is it possible that the piece is from the early 50's?
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Dare I voice my question of the signature again? :huh:
To be honest, it looked Dremelled to me. :P
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The plastic label probably indicates no earlier than 1980s, particularly as there is no degradation. I think we need Alex to take a look (Art of Venice)
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So if I've got this right,
Its 1980's or 50's, my research (Murano Magic) said that A.V. was pre 70's regardless of what label is on there.
The signature is iffy, I presume that means a forgery.
To sum up.
The forged signature points to the 50's, the label points to the 80's
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I think you are okay, Martin. Seguso Arte Vetro apparently opened in 1969. I found a line about it at http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/mans-s.htm. I found a few Seguso AV vases online. One of them is being sold on eBay right now if you want to put Seguso AV into the search engine. There is a carefully engraved signature on the lower rim of the vase's wall. I don't put a lot of thought into the signatures of many of the companies. They varied so much from piece to piece -- not talking about companies that had acid marks. I have a feeling, after reading about Livio Seguso, that your vase is not supposed to be clear. I don't know if he designed the vase, but I read that in the 1970's and 80's he ventured away from clear glass. The vase does not look like Livio to me, but I am not familiar with anything other than his sommerso pieces.
Maybe we will stumble upon the vase in our online journeys. Then you can feel more confident about the authenticity of your vase. The earlier company is probably not the AV that made your vase. Murano Magic does not cover many of the companies that formed after the middle part of the century.
Anita
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Soledivo said:
The signature is iffy, I presume that means a forgery.
I was talking openly, but without anything other than a feeling. It could be perfectly fine. We need someone to take a look, that's all. I'll try and get hold of Javier. :)
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Anita, thanks as always,
and Max please don't read my way of talking as being confrontational. It's just the way I am, I appreciate everyones help, I was trying to put it all together to see where we had got with the vase.
I would be perfectly happy if you told be to be more polite now and again, sorry!
"edit"
Probably me Anita, I tried the search "worldwide" and got zero
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I would be perfectly happy if you told be to be more polite now and again, sorry!
Uhh? The thought of it never crossed my mind! You are perfectly polite and not confrontational at all! :-*
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I found the vase you mentioned Anita,
In a way it points a probable answer about the cloudy glass.
But, I now have to say, I can see where Max was coming from.
The signature on the abay vase is neat and uniformed.
Whereas mine is scratchy and slightly out of kilter,
The plot thickens
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I found the Seguso AV vase through Google and didn't pay much attention that the auction ended a while back. The number is 330250237590 for the people who want to see the signature without having to retrace my steps. Glad you were able to track down the vase I was referring to, Martin.
Anita
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Thanks Anita. :) At least that signature is similar. If acid has been used on that sellers vase, then maybe it's bitten into the signature to 'round it out' (for want of a better term). I'm glad to see at least a similar signing style has been used.
Would be nice if someone withe Seguso experience could take a look...maybe Christine's suggestion of Alex is a good idea.
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Hi,
I don't have a final answer, but I'll try to give my contribution to this interesting issue.
1) Seguso is a pretty common name in Murano as in Venice and there are several people involved in glassmaking with this name. Also the seguso family has very acient roots in Murano and therefore there are some different branches with their own related companies.
Anyway these are the Seguso Companies now working:
Seguso Gianni Vetreria Artistica Artigiana
Seguso Vetri D'Arte
Seguso Viro Vetreria Artistica
Seguso Viro Galleria D'Arte Del Vetro
Matteo Seguso Incisore D'Arte su Vetro
Roscano Bottega D'arte Di Gianandrea Seguso
Vetreria Artistica Archimede Seguso Srl
Seguso Gianni Vetreria Artistica
Seguso Livio Studio
I know other 3-4 glass companies with a "seguso" in the name, now closed or renamed.
2) For my experience I have seen that the main part of the signatures are applied not by one single master glassmakers, but by somebody else. Often the pieces are stocked in the warehouse unsigned and they are singed just before the packing and shipping, may be by the same people in charge to pack them. It means a) that the signatures can be not always identical in the time; b) that these people don't care too much about the "quality" of the signature (mistakes in the name, or a AV instead of a VA, et similia)
3) Anyway this signature in photo looks at least as made by somebody not very use to write with a Dremel. Considering that also if specialized of packing and boxing, every worker in Murano is used to engrave glass with a diamond drill, I suppose that this signature can be applied in a second time by somebody else, may be to add value to the piece before to sell it (so many clients ask for a signature also on small items). If I translate Art Glass in Italian looks as Arte Vetro (A.V.), but the correct translation is Vetro d'arte (V.A. or VdA).
Also: the style and the label say as end '70s/'80s not '50s.
May be a signature made in a second time by somebody not italian?
Sincerely
Alex
http://www.artofvenice.com (http://www.artofvenice.com)
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Alex,, thanks, what a lot of information :hiclp:.
thank you.
I was going to keep the vase even if it was dodgy, I thought it would be a useful item to look back on with future purchases.
What a stupid idea :hb2: when a few photo's would do the same job.
The vase is also to big for my house, I have nothing that can take it safely away from the dog and my sons.
I only bought 2 pieces at the auction, this 1 and a vase labeled "Scottish glass". Guess what, it wasn't Scottish, its 1 of Franks infamous "cellophane vases".
That 1 as it happens I'm really pleased with, the more I look at it the better it gets.
So if I may ask, what would be a realistic value for the Seguso vase ? its got to go, I wish I had more room. Also, again if I can be cheeky and ask you, how would one describe such a vase with a questionable signature. I've been racking my brains (yep the whole 20 seconds) and any desciptions I come up with would end up putting people off the vase.
To go off subject, the reason you have suddenly been lumbered with me is that I was pensioned off through ill health earlier this year. At 47 I can't do nothing, so I decided this was the time to do what I've always wanted to. So I am trying to build up a small stock of quality Murano and others occasionally, so that I can run a small internet business from home.
I no its littered with failures but at least I'l know that I gave it a go.
On the good side I'm loving every minute of it, keeps the little grey cells working.
I was intending to have my own site but I'm not any good at computer thingy's and after seeing the cost of someone else designing my site, there's no way. So I'll use one of the sites that cater for this market.
And I can't tell you all and a certain other site how much I appreciate your knowledge.
Has that upped the value of my vase? hehe
Not forgetting, that after Alex's wonderful information it seems Max was right on the money all along :hiclp:
Oh yes, look out, I bought a pair of Blackamoor figures at an auction today :angel: (oh no not again :chky:)
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Not forgetting, that after Alex's wonderful information it seems Max was right on the money all along
Well....we're not entirely sure about that! It's not conclusive. You could probably get your money back from the auction house (should you want to) for the 'Scottish' vase as an expert has said that it isn't Scottish. :cry:
And my BIG thanks to Alex too, for taking the time to help us again. :-* :-*
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Probably but I prefer it for what it is,
as I said I'm pleased with that one.
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Hi,
I think that 60 £ is a very reasonable price for a vessel like that one. Now in Murano you can't buy nothing than junk glass for less than 100 Euro, or very small and mass produced glass jewellery. So, signature or not singature, keep that piece that it was not a bad deal.
Ciao
Alex
www.artofvenice.com (http://www.artofvenice.com)
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thanks for that alex ;D
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This vase is fine. I think the "damage" is an intentional surface decoration, although without seeing the piece in person I can't be sure. The label is post 1970s - this is a different Seguso VA than the 1950s company. Everything is right with the world. The vase is lovely. ;D
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Laura, I think I love you :-*
thanks for that. I ts certainly been an interesting discussion. :hiclp:
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Is the mottling on the inside or the outside? If on the outside, unless it is actually oily, I think it is meant it is meant to be there. It looks like stannous chloride or something similar and I'd be careful of trying to remove it because you could actually damage the surface.
Hi Laura,
Sometimes my gut feelings can be wrong, so I was pleased to read you agreed! ;)