Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: chuggy on June 18, 2006, 11:11:15 AM
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Not my usual style at all and I can count on one hand the number of pieces of pressed glass I have kept, but this lady was just too tempting this morning. Having been right through Pamelas superb site without any success, I'm hoping someone can give me an ID on her and her bowl.
http://i6.tinypic.com/14taqg2.jpg
Paul
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She may be the Sowerby stump lady. I think there are three of this sitting type. Two coy ones including the Sowerby lady and the brazen hussy I've got, who has her hands on her knees. She's generally thought to be Czech.
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I also think that is one of the Sowerby stump lady figural flower frogs with float bowl
Lovely!
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The base looks different to the Sowerby ones I've seen, although the figure looks the same. This one has a sawtooth surround whereas ones I've always seen are perfectly smooth.
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that is an interesting observation David...
on 1st Glassman the sawtoothed edge one is called Czech, but looks to me like it has a shorter base than Paul's?
http://1st.glassman.com/gallery-frogs/slides/vaselinesatinladyfrog5.html
and comparing that with my own Sowerby lady I can see mine has the smooth edge, and also has a different hairstyle etc to the one Paul shows
(http://www.trocadero.com/AlmasAttic/items/524395/catphoto.jpg)
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Here's a clear frosted one I sold recently:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/dencill/06-05-12/sowerby1.jpg
This, I assumed, was Sowerby. Compares favourably to yours Cheri, except the flower holes appear closer in?
Paul, might be worth editing the title to include 'Sowerby' in the title to see if Adam picks up :)
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I've edited the title as suggested, interesting comments about the bowl as each segment is rippled with 2 curved waves underneath. It just sits so well as a set and she is certainly on a tree stump. The sawtooth base has 10 holes, don't know how this compares with the smooth ones.
Glad she's proving of interest though.
Paul
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I can only think they adapted the base to suit different bowls and looking at Cheri's and mine, the base does appear different. It did also occur to me that perhaps it was saw-tooth for a reason: to fit a matching recess perhaps?
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10 flower holes in mine too Paul
here are some more views to compare
http://www.trocadero.com/AlmasAttic/items/524395/en2store.html
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I don't recognise Paul's flower centre lady as Sowerby - or to be more specific, she is not in any of the Sowerby catalogues that I have.
David's frosted pale blue lady does look like the Sowerby centre shown in the catalogue.
The base on Paul's lady is very different to the ones I know as Sowerby. I don't recognise the bowl as Sowerby either.
Hopefully Adam D. or Bernard will have more information.
Paul - it's a fabulous set - congratulations. Absolutely beautiful.
Glen
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Here's a uranium lady in the same bowl http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7400098694 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7400098694)
and another in a definite Sowerby bowl
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7346461046 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7346461046)
These ladies have also been discussed before
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2981.msg22971.html#msg22971
I think she's probably Czech - anyway she's lovely and as other women go, pretty cheap to keep :oops: :lol:
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Thanks for those links, Christine.
The Sowerby bowl in the second auction is their 2565 bowl. It is also found in scarce blue Carnival Glass (oddly enough it almost NEVER surfaces in the UK in Carnival) when it is known as "Flora". It's seen in the usual Sowerby colours and is a gorgeous piece of design, with cameo roses on the underside.
It's the base on Paul's "lady" that is challenging - it's very distinctive.
Glen
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Here's one from the Black-Poppy website, sadly unknown, but it shows that the same figure has a different bowl.
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/mc/unknown/greenlady1.jpg
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Thanks TC: that looks like another with the saw-tooth base :shock:
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I must admit that I'm glad to have found something interesting as I've bought so little pressed glass in the last 10 years, but I just took a shine to this and at just £4 figured the downside was worth the chance, anyway she is all cleaned up and sitting in the dining room.
Just by the way the first glass I ever really collected was the Walter Crane Sowerby pieces, long since sold off unfortunately.
Paul
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I also once had this lady in, which was sold to me as Walther and is documented on 1st Glass Man as such (tho I dont see it on Pamela's site)
http://www.1st-glass.1st-things.com/gallery-frogs/slides/pinksatinladyfrog1.html
however, the bowl mine came in is, I believe, Sowerby? and I have subsequently seen the bowl plus frog on eBay.UK a number of times
and both called Sowerby :?:
(http://images.goantiques.com/thumbnails/JRY2375/JRY2375WGPFB1.jpg)
(http://images.goantiques.com/thumbnails_c/JRY2375/JRY2375WGPFB1.jpg)
can anyone shed some light on that one?
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Cheri, I can't see the detail on your bowl, but it does look like the one I mentioned above (2565) that is known in Carnival as "Flora" - and is undoubtedly Sowerby.
Glen
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here is a closer view Glen. It has pressed roses in the pattern. I dont think it has the same shape as the 2565....a bit more shallow maybe and doesnt have the deep scalloped edge that I see on that one in the link
As I mentioned, I bought the bowl and pink lady as a set, and still see them sold as sets on eBay sooo would I be correct that the lady is also Sowerby then, and not Walther?
http://images.goantiques.com/dbimages/JRY2375/JRY2375WGPFB1.jpg
http://images.goantiques.com/dbimages3/JRY2375/JRY2375WGPFB1.jpg
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I have the same bowl as the one on the Black Poppy site that TC posted the link to, but mine has a fluted flower holder instead of a figure. As the pattern appears the same as a plate I have I've always thought this was a Davidson bowl. Christine, you know the plate I mean - it's the one you were seeking to match your 714 fruit set bowls.
Could Paul's bowl be a Davidson one as well given that we have matches between frogs and bowls and plates?
My flower set: <---------- Now known to be Bernsdorf!
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-726
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-731
My Davidson plate:
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-727
My bowl with Paul's frog lady:
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/mc/unknown/greenlady1.jpg <-------- dead link
Frog lady above on her own:
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/mc/unknown/greenlady2.jpg <-------- dead link
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Here's the homepage of the collection.
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/
http://www.black-poppy.co.uk/mc/sowerby/greensow2.jpg <------- dead link
AlmasAttic, this is in the Sowerby section of that site and looks the same as yours?
On closer inspection the rim on yours curves the other way. :o
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Hi everyone. Glen's assessment of my knowledge here is rather optimistic. All I can say is that I am reasonably confident that Paul's centrepiece set is an original pair, not a later mix and match, and that it was not by Sowerby, Bagley, Davidson, or Jobling.
There are several quite close copies of early non-registered Sowerby Tynesyde designs which appear from time to time. Another is of the 2505 Lily / Iris range, complete with a similar but not identical 2487 Star flower holder.
I wish I could help more.
Bernard C. 8)
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There is just one thing that I am certain of in all the above, and that is that Cheri's bowl is the Sowerby 2565 (which is also known in Carnival Glass as "Flora"). The bowl can be found with straight up sides, slightly cupped in or flared out (I think they called that flanged).
I am not totally sure that Paul's blue bowl is the same as Anne's green bowl. Paul's blue bowl appears to have 12 panels - and the apex of the flute (pointed edge of the "scallop") appears to be located at the moulded lines that form the panel sections.
Anne's green bowl has 16 panels, as had the blackpoppy bowl. The apex of the flutes around the edge appears to be more sharply shaped than Paul's bowl - and also the apex of the flutes appear to be located at the mid point of each panel.
I can't be sure from the photos, Anne, but there is an angular tear drop shape on each of the panels, by the centre of the item on your Davidson plate. Also there are more panels on the Davidson plate, but this could just be because of a size difference.
I have a feeling that Paul's bowl is not exactly the same as any other we have seen so far.
What I feel this does show, very clearly, is that manufacturers, agents, wholesalers and customers all mixed and matched their bowls and ladies!
Glen
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Ooh I never knew this was going to prove so interesting. The bowl does have 12 panels and now I look more carfully the "wave ripples" underneath noted earlier only occur on 2 out every 3 panels so 2 with, 1 without and this is the same all the way round. Don't know if this helps at all.
Paul
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What I feel this does show, very clearly, is that manufacturers, agents, wholesalers and customers all mixed and matched their bowls and ladies!
Glen
:P
May I quote you on that for future listings, Glen?
Thanks too for the ID of the pink bowl for me.
This has sure been a very interesting discussion.
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Anne's green bowl has 16 panels, as had the blackpoppy bowl. The apex of the flutes around the edge appears to be more sharply shaped than Paul's bowl - and also the apex of the flutes appear to be located at the mid point of each panel.
Just coming back to this topic to say that my two-piece set here: http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-726 is also shown on Pamela's site now, as Bernsdorf, pattern dating from 1937. Thanks Pamela, this one's been bugging me for ages.