Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: jonchellycain on February 12, 2012, 01:17:23 PM
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Hi all
I picked this up thinking I had seen one in my books but am struggling to get an ID on it
It has a metal plate and lid plate is marked with what looks like hallmarks but I dont believe they are A B what looks like a snowflake and gothic style S, with a large V above and a 13 at the bottom.
The glass liner has a reg Diamond which dates it to Jan 1878.
The metal lid has a hunting style dog both lid and plate have a matching monogram.
Sorry I know this is more metal than glass but thought the bowl maybe the key to getting it identified.
many thanks in advance
michelle
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Hello Michelle - according to Slack there are only two glass registrations in January 1878 - one is 317583-4 (5th Jan. for Archibold Hodge, Glasgow).......and the other is 317822 (18th Jan. for Fred. Willian Brownlow of Manchester). What is your No. reading? Sorry, can't help re the metal, and regret this is rather meagre information - however, very nice piece, and I'd give it house room any day. :)
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sorry, had also meant to add that it is probable that both of these names are wholesalers or distributors only - although I see that Brownlow's address includes the words 'Canning Works', so it's possible they were manufacturers of something.
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left side 8 right side W bottom I think its a C.
Using Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 page 445 it says "for 1-6 march 1878, 'G' was used for the month and 'W' for the year."
Its possible my C is a G
No other numbers
many thanks Paul, anyinfo adds to a picture no matter how Meagre
michelle
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http://1st-glass.1st-things.com/lozengetranslator.html
typed in and got this reply
"You have selected W as the year, which was only used from the 1st to the
6th of March 1878 with the letter G representing the month. The only glass
actually registered during this period was on the 1st of March (Packet 8) by:
Percival, Vickers & Co.(Ltd.), Manchester"
Question answered on the glass now to try and work out the rest of it
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the parcel No. 8 also confirms it as P.V., and the Rd. No. is 319090 - well done Michelle.
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I completely forgot about that link untill after I wrote this thread was just searching for something else when I spotted it in my glass links album.
I had another PV piece a while back, A tall cellery vase.
Doubt it will be so easy to trace the metal now and probably be under a different distributers too.
More digging required
thanks again Paul
michelle
It seems a real shame, not a lot of info remains on Percival, Vickers & Co. I remember trying to get info when I had the vase and just coming to a dead end all the time. On the website below second from last row left side is a dish in the same pattern as mine
http://www.murrayam.supanet.com/percivalvickers.html
The buildings
http://manchesterhistory.net/manchester/tours/tour12/area12page29.html
page 15
http://www.historyofglass.org.uk/memberzone/glassnews22.pdf
http://thehumanjourney.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=62&Itemid=116
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There's loads of info on Percival Vickers if you go to my website!
You have an item from the "Manchester" pressed suite
http://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/percival-vickers-designs-by-date/percival-vickers-1878
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Despite being a wonderful book, I don't think Hajdamach would be first choice for detailed information on Rd. Nos. Michelle - you'd be better off with either Raymond Slack or better still Jenny Thompson (plus Supplement) - plus, of course, Neil's website ;D
If you remain stumped after all that - and you can let me have details - I can visit TNA at Kew for you.
Despite occasional minor hiccups, the GMB, with its infinite range of members interests - remains the best overall source for information, and everyone should be a member :)
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I can't be sure without actually seeing the marks on the metalware, but sounds like the electroplate marks for Henry Atkin / Atkin Brothers of Sheffield ( see http://www.silvercollection.it/electroplatesilver.html , which is a great website generally for identifying marks on silver, silver plate and electroplate).
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wow Neilh WONDERFUL stuff, I went through page after page and didnt spot your site. will be having a good trall through later me thinks when I have more time.
PaulThe book only has a dating system at the back no numbers, so it was just the first place so I could get the initial date really (although I still managed to do it wrong lol).
Will try searching a bit more on the numbers and lattering for the metal work and hopefully will come up with something. I see they did different styles not just the Dog which I have.
agincourt17 thanks for the link will search through and see if I can match anything. Will add some better pictures of the metal numbers/lettering shortly
thanks again to all
michelle
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marks on plate
more pictures in my picasa album direct link to correct album here;
https://picasaweb.google.com/112538457954992188877/AntiqueVictorianGlass?authuser=0&feat=directlink
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agincourt17, Definatly HENRY ATKIN/ATKIN BROTHERS, Sheffield. Just had a look and the marks are identical.
Wow well done you from my poor description you remembered who it was.
I think we are there
"Manchester" pressed suite by Percival, Vickers & Co
Plate and lid Silver plate by Henry Atkins/Atkins Brothers Sheffield
Rd. No. is 319090, 1st to the 6th of March 1878
If anybody would like to use the images for websites and further reseach purposes (only) I am happy for them to do so. If you let me know I can send better quality images as the ones on here are low MP.
GIVE YOURSELVES A ROUND OF APPLAUSE JOB WELL DONE :)
Thanks
michelle
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Just one general point about identifying metalworkers for the Manchester glass factories. Here is the list that Molineaux Webb were using in 1929. As you can see, Atkins Brothers are on there. I've spoken to the people who ran the Molineaux Webb factory after it was renamed to the Kirby Street Glass Works in subsequent decades. They were still dealing with at least one company on this list, Walker & Hall. So it is a fair assumption that when trying to identify the metal makers for Manchester pieces, there is a good chance of it coming from the list below, as business relationships seemed to be long term between Manchester glassmakers and Midlands metal workers.
A. MARKS & CO
Sheffield silversmiths
ANGORA SILVER PLATE CO LTD
Sheffield silversmiths
ATKINS BROS LTD
Midlands silversmiths
GABRIEL & CO LTD
Birmingham steel company
G.F. WESTWOOD & SON
Birmingham silversmiths
I.S. GREENBERG & CO LTD
Sheffield metalworkers
J.B. CHATTERLEY & SONS LTD
Birmingham silversmiths
J. ROUND & SON
Sheffield silversmiths
LLOYD, PAYNE & AMIEL LTD
Manchester silversmiths
RAENO SILVER PLATE CO LTD
Birmingham silversmiths
WALKER & HALL LTD
Sheffield silversmiths