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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: stew2u2 on December 17, 2012, 07:46:41 AM

Title: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: stew2u2 on December 17, 2012, 07:46:41 AM
believe this is boulton and mills but not 100% sure and what age i think its early 1900 am i close
glows green under uv light
thanks
stew

Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 17, 2012, 07:52:12 AM
How is the rim finished?
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: stew2u2 on December 17, 2012, 11:11:45 AM
thanks for looking Christine
believe its ground flat no heat


Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 17, 2012, 11:14:32 AM
That looks fire polished to me. I think perhaps that pushes it towards English but I wouldn't like to say who made it.
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: stew2u2 on December 25, 2012, 01:53:00 PM
just got a new uv light off santa
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Paul S. on December 25, 2012, 03:05:43 PM
Stew  -  great glow, but I'd also suggest a fire polished rim from what I can see in your pictures.         From what little I know of coloured Victorian material, I get the impression that ground/polished rims are more an indication of Continental origin - and doubt that you could tie down to a maker.                 Leaf trailing was certainly a common form of decoration on this type of object, and turquoise a not uncommon colour.
Have a feeling that these shapes are called 'shaft and globe', and would humbly suggest a date a little earlier than your 1900 -  perhaps more 1870 - 1880.
What makes you suggest Boulton & Mills??
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: stew2u2 on December 25, 2012, 04:05:29 PM
thanks for looking paul
it has a flat edge to the rim i thought fire polished is more rounded.
i thought it might have been boulton and mills as i have seen a very similar shape with a different decoration but they could have been wrong to
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Paul S. on December 25, 2012, 04:46:44 PM
if it does have a flat rim, then you're probably correct in saying 'ground' - I must get round to specsavers after Christmas ;)
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 26, 2012, 09:14:12 AM
Still looks fire polished to me. Those edges look round rather than "sharp"
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: flying free on December 26, 2012, 10:15:19 AM
I have a Loetz vase that is mould blown and cut at the rim, then ground and polished, but it's been so well done it look firepolished on the outside edge although you can see the light bevel on the inside edge.  I don't think your vase has what would be described as a 'ground' rim only, as that would be left matt as far as I know.  It looks polished and perhaps then firepolished? or it has just been beautifully done as per my Loetz vase maybe?
It seems to be well made, has it a little bump in the centre of the base? definitely no polished pontil mark  - sorry it's hard to tell from photos?  I would lean towards English first as well given the finish on the vase.
m
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: stew2u2 on December 26, 2012, 12:08:30 PM
here is a better photo of the rim
and yes m it has a dimple on the base.
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Paul S. on December 26, 2012, 02:03:59 PM
Manley figures several similarly decorated pieces -  turquoise over opal bodies - and seems quite happy in attributing them to Boulton & Mills (partly on the basis of the turquoise  -  or what he calls  'weak blue' decoration).   
However................factors that may possibly be against this being B. & M. are  -
 
1.........the feet (which incidentally are apparently known as 'tall height, wishbone pattern in trailed glass).
2.........no clear casing over the crystal.
3.........pronged feet rather than a solid foot.
           
Although this style of pronged applied feet are known on British material (have a look at Gulliver where there are good examples of this type of foot together with leaf trail decoration), the examples shown by Manley all have solid feet - and when discussing origin he comments............."opal jug with blue decoration.  Cheap handle and weak blue colour helps to identify as Boulton & Mills c. 1910.     Only the extra weight and solid foot distinguishes it from a Continental specimen"

None of the pieces in Manley has a ground/beveled rim  - and as we know he makes no comment about uranium content.
Other pieces included in Manley - but which have coloured acanthus decoration and coloured inner bodies, - he assigns to S. & W., but differentiating pieces from the two factories seems to have no hard and fast rule....for example  -  opal casing over a colour can equally be either maker, and acanthus leaves are also from both factories.

Manley seems to consider this weak blue as being a specific  B. & M. characteristic.

Barry Skelcher is unconvinced, and believes ground/bevelled rims are a Continental feature.

Gulliver plays safe as usual, and is not prepared to make a positive attribution on almost all of these 'commonly decorated' types of popular glass.

Pronged feet, ground/beveled rim and a lack of a crystal casing, may well mean a more than 50/50 chance that this is Continental.



Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: flying free on December 26, 2012, 05:12:02 PM
Glassobsessed posted a vase recently which has a cut, ground and polished rim and which iirc has been identified as British.  I will try and find the link.
I'm not so sure about using Manley to decide what is Continental and what not?  I seem to recall there are a number of misattributions in his book although that may be because of the age of book and the knowledge available at the time? 
m
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Paul S. on December 26, 2012, 06:15:43 PM
yes, I also understand that there has been some re-assessment of Manley's attributions, although I have to admit total ignorance about this sort of decorative Victorian glass, so make no comment myself - as so often, my information comes from books.

I believe that for some of his material, Manley had first hand knowledge, or had spoken to workers who remembered the manufacturing details etc. - although in this particular matter he doesn't explain exactly why he was so convinced that weak blue and opal was a Boulton & Mills feature.
Must admit that my thoughts on 'ground and bevelled rims being Continental' are tenuous to say the least, and are based on some information from somewhere where it was stated that this type of rim finish - on drinking glasses - was likely to be Continental.

You're quite right, of course, that rims with this finish can equally be British  -  see Gulliver - who, under the heading of Component Designs/Designs for Rims, includes ..........
Ground off, and polished.
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: stew2u2 on December 26, 2012, 07:48:31 PM
thanks for all the info i think i am more confused now than before  ;D but that ain't hard to do.
i think i will agree its a nice uranium vase made in late victorian times
thanks
stew
Title: Re: uranium glass vase boulton and mills or stevens and williams or other
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 26, 2012, 07:55:29 PM
The trouble is nobody really knows about so many of these things. Manley and Skelcher are not always to be relied on for their attributions and even Gulliver shows things that are now known not to be British.
I personally have stopped worrying about who made what and go with
Quote
a nice uranium vase made in late Victorian times
I have a large collection of vases and baskets in white/cream uranium glass and only one unmarked pair and one marked vase have definitive IDs.