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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Tigerchips on June 22, 2006, 11:30:31 PM

Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Tigerchips on June 22, 2006, 11:30:31 PM
I'm a virgin when it comes to cranberry glass. Is this vase cranberry glass? It glows under UV and it's vertically ribbed with applied clear glass bits. It has a nicely polished rim with a few chips on it unfortunetly. There is no pontil and the base slopes inwards. Not a biggin', It's just under 8 inches high. I paid £2.75 for it, was that cheap?
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10011/Picture_48135.jpg

This isn't cranberry but it's in the style of Cranberry glass. Nicely polished pontil. A few minor chips but nothing too noticable. It's around 4.50 inches diameter. I broke the bank and paid £3.50 for it!
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10011/Picture_48136.jpg

Any clues of manufacturer, age, etc...?

Thanks, Tigerhips.
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: KevinH on June 23, 2006, 12:53:49 AM
Hi "tigerhips" (wot, no "c"?)

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a "style of Cranberry glass". If glass is the colour of "crushed cranberries" then it is cranberry in colour (although some folk would say that modern items of similar colour are not really "cranberry" as the pink is not the right shade).

The top of your first vase does seem to be of a cranberry colour, although the overall pink looks a bit too red ... and the green seem rather weak. But that may due to the thickness (or thinness) of the glass and photographic lighting etc.

Cranberry-with-green is well known for various 19th century pieces (see my example below), and your vase, with its pinch-work, does have the look of a late 19th century piece. But I wonder whether it could be a later version?

Here's one of my cranberry-and-green things (with a "Triffid" foot, as Leni might call it): http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2376
In my photo, the pink appears darker than in many other cranbeery coloured items. It glows bright green under "blacklight". Even in the pink section - but that is because of the clear glass that coats the inner cranberry colour and the clear is casuing a UV reaction. The green may itself give a UV reaction but that would not necessarily be detected through the standard green from the clear glass. (I have a cranberry-and-clear (no green) vase which shows only a green reaction in the clear ... the cranberry section is on a very thin clear glass and no UV reaction is seen.)

The second vase is also probably a 19th century one, with a crimped (rigaree) trail of clear around the middle. But it's not a "cranberry style".

Or maybe there is a collector term of "cranberry" that applies to something other than the colour? I await further responses. :)
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: heartofglass on June 23, 2006, 07:58:05 AM
Hi Tiger,
nice Victorian glass you got there, & yes, bargains too!
The ruby (or cranberry) to green is often referred to as Rubina Verde, particularly in U.S references.
Hard to say where it's from, could be English or maybe a Bohemian copy of English glass.
It's a variation on the heat reactive shaded colours so popular in the late Victorian era, like Amberina.
Second item could be a preserve dish-they usually have this type of rigaree round their middle as a support to sit snugly into a silver-plate holder.
This one looks English to me & probably C.1890s.
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Leni on June 23, 2006, 08:48:24 AM
1st one looks Bohemian to me.  Second, yes, I agree could well be English.  

Tiger, now don't you start collecting 'my' style of glass!   :twisted:  And not at my sort of price, either!  :lol:
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Tigerchips on June 23, 2006, 12:05:37 PM
The vase looks more of a cranberry colour than ruby, it's just the light playing tricks.

It does shine bright green under UV as normal, though the cranberry bits don't shine as much. I don't think the bottom half of the vase is green, rather it's the uranium in the glass that makes it look green.  :?  So I've got a cranberry to clear glass vase, or should I say cranberry to uranium vase? Or would it be cranberry to green as it looks green.  :roll:

I'll just add that the pinchwork does not glow under UV as it's just clear glass.

The vase has a lot of imperfections in it, more so than the bowl. it has a few stretched bubbles and the odd bit of black grit.

More pictures
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10011/Picture_48142.jpg
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10011/Picture_48146.jpg

The bowl is just as heavy (240g) as the vase and it seems to have more quality to it.

More pictures
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10011/Picture_48144.jpg
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10011/Picture_48145.jpg

Quote from: "KevH"
Hi "tigerhips" (wot, no "c"?)

Work it, work it out, stand with your feet parallel, little more than hip distance apart, your stomach pulled in, your weight slightly forward, keeping that posture, and reach, two three, two three four, and back, two three four five six seven eight, and back, two three four five six seven eight, and back...  :D
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: heartofglass on June 23, 2006, 01:05:10 PM
I've always thought that ruby & cranberry were pretty much interchangable terms.
I suppose this will start a terminology war, now!
We tend to call this colour ruby down here.
The lower quality of the vase as you describe it either places it as a crib item (small 'backyard' manufacturer) or cheap Bohemian copy of English glass.
Whatever, it's of the type generally referred to as Rubina Verde.
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: heartofglass on June 23, 2006, 01:06:27 PM
I've always thought that ruby & cranberry were pretty much interchangable terms.
I suppose this will start a terminology war, now!
We tend to call this colour ruby down here.
The lower quality of the vase as you describe it either places it as a crib item (small 'backyard' manufacturer) or cheap Bohemian copy of English glass.
Whatever, it's of the type generally referred to as Rubina Verde.
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: heartofglass on June 23, 2006, 01:09:01 PM
I've always thought that ruby & cranberry were pretty much interchangable terms.
I suppose this will start a terminology war, now!
We tend to call this colour ruby down here.
The lower quality of the vase as you describe it either places it as a crib item (small 'backyard' manufacturer) or cheap Bohemian copy of English glass.
Whatever, it's of the type generally referred to as Rubina Verde.
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Frank on June 23, 2006, 04:12:31 PM
Certainly not interchangeable. Ruby is a shade of deep red and Cranberry is a different deep red. However, European cranberry is the fruit of a shrub and the American cranberry the fruit of a tree from a completely different species. Ruby is the ideal colour of the gemstone but of course there is a lot of variation.

I would say Ruby is deeper than cranberry but I have not seen the US fruit.
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Tigerchips on June 23, 2006, 04:42:59 PM
Thank you, er, again, Marinka. :? :)

Oh, it's definetly not a cheap Bohemian copy (lies).  :lol:

Sounds silly of me to ask but are the cheap Bohemian copies worth a lot less than the genuine English one's? And how old are the cheap Bohemian copies as mine doesn't look recent?

It's filled with muck. (Goes off to clean it in the dish washer, 90 degrees, oh yes).  :lol:
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Leni on June 23, 2006, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: "Tigerchips"
Sounds silly of me to ask but are the cheap Bohemian copies worth a lot less than the genuine English one's? And how old are the cheap Bohemian copies as mine doesn't look recent?

What's anything 'worth', Tiger?   :wink:  Personally, I collect both English and Bohemian, so both are 'worth' the same to me.  Although I might have to pay a bit more for a Stourbridge 'name'!   :lol:

I think the Bohemian ones are equally old.  Please don't put it in the dishwasher, the poor old thing!   :shock:   :wink:
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Tigerchips on June 23, 2006, 05:58:16 PM
Quote from: "Leni"
I think the Bohemian ones are equally old. Please don't put it in the dishwasher, the poor old thing!  

My dishwasher isn't old, it's brand new, I got it a few days ago with my kitchen.  :lol:
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Leni on June 23, 2006, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: "Tigerchips"
Quote from: "Leni"
I think the Bohemian ones are equally old. Please don't put it in the dishwasher, the poor old thing!  

My dishwasher isn't old, it's brand new, I got it a few days ago with my kitchen.  :lol:


Congratulations!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Ooops!  We're destined for the Cafe!   :wink:
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Tigerchips on June 23, 2006, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: "Leni"
Tiger, now don't you start collecting 'my' style of glass!  :twisted:  And not at my sort of price, either!  :lol:  

I may start a collection of those tall opalescent uranium vases but where should I start? It's not like I'm going to find a whole bunch of them is it, especially on a car boot? I think i'll stick to my carnival glass just for now.  :D
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: KevinH on June 23, 2006, 10:53:24 PM
For some time, I have stayed out of discussions on what causes a UV reaction in glass ... it's all quite complicated ... and far too difficult for me to put into simple words - even if I knew what I was mumbling about.  :cry:

But, suddenly, my "pedant hat" dropped of the hat rack and plopped neatly onto my head as I approached the computer this evening ... so I would just like to say, in response to:
Quote
the pinchwork does not glow under UV as it's just clear glass
... Clear glass can give a UV reaction, and very often it's green. The fact that the clear pinchwork does not show a UV reaction merely means that it contains nothing in the proportions that would cause a reaction. I have seen some pieces with clear parts for the foot and rim or body decoration which react differently, showing no reaction for one part but green for the other :!:

And no, folks, I won't be drawn into the old debates about "uranium glass". No. Defintely not. No way. Too much for me. No more.

 :shock:  8)  :D
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Leni on June 24, 2006, 09:06:26 AM
Quote from: "KevH"
I have seen some pieces with clear parts for the foot and rim or body decoration which react differently, showing no reaction for one part but green for the other :!:

Hi Kev  :D  Yes, I have many pieces like this!  In some the rigaree alone glows brightly, in some the main body of the item also glows, but very much less.  I always assumed this was due either to the amount of uranium in the mix, or to the fact that it might be one of the other chemicals, which causes a lesser reaction.  But I still tend to call it 'uranium glass', 'cos I reckon it saves confusion!  Sorry if it prods you to put on your pedant hat!    :lol:
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Frank on June 24, 2006, 10:25:59 AM
After further investigation the cranberry colour gets only further away. There are several varities of the European species and of course the colours are certain to vary across the range.

The colours defined as cranberry spread across a broad spectrum but I would sat that in general they all appear to be at the blue end of the red spectrun and ruby tends to the purer reds.

This site brings us back to the specifics of cranberry glass and there description of the colour gives an interesting observation that might make the definition of cranberry colour in glass clearer. http://www.exmoorglass.co.uk/cranberry.htm
Quote
The rose tint of  Cranberry is a distinctly English colour.  Red glass was produced on the continent but in much darker, heavier colours. The secret of the  Cranberry shade that the English made was that they added gold to the molten glass, as an expensive but very powerful colouring agent.


But just to add to the confusion http://www.gibraltar-crystal.com/cran_intro.html
appears to equate cranberry with ruby, or Roman Gold Ruby. :x


Back to square one :?:

Can our American membership come up with any US definitions applying to glass? Was cranberry part of the American glass companies palette or just used by collectors?
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Frank on June 24, 2006, 10:45:05 AM
Another Antique dealers definition:

Quote
CRANBERRY GLASS. The colour of wild Cranberries, the pink is subtle but not so deep as Ruby red glass..Very popular with the Victorians for tablewares.Victorian Cranberry glass is often very fine glass, showing faults in the glass,such as trapped air bubbles..Modern Cranberry glass is still produced, the best pink is made in Bohemia...

http://www.glamorganantiques.co.uk/glossaryglass.htm
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Connie on June 24, 2006, 10:49:07 AM
Cranberry glass was/is made by American glass companies.  The most notable being Fenton.  Fenton began making cranberry glass around 1939.  Other American companies that I can think of off the top of my head that made cranberry were Pilgrim and Kanawha.  When Pilgrim closed, it was said that Fenton was the only American company left making cranberry glass due to the cost of the gold needed in the formulation.


I think since then that the glass company (which I can't remember the name) that makes glass for the Sandwich Glass Museum makes small quantities of cranberry glass for the reproduction glass sold at the museum.

Glen and I had a conversation about cranbery glass, ruby glass, heat sensitive glass etc last year on this board.

In general, cranberry glass in the US is a pinky red made with gold as the colorant.  Ruby Red is a deeperr red and I believe that selenium is used as the colorant.

JMHO YMMV

 :wink:


Edited to add some examples:

Fenton cranberry -

http://www.grayhorseglass.com/items/527455/item527455store.html#item

Fenton ruby

http://www.grayhorseglass.com/items/374320/item374320store.html#item
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Leni on June 24, 2006, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: "grayhorse"
Cranberry glass was/is made by American glass companies.  The most notable being Fenton.  Fenton began making cranberry glass around 1939.  Other American companies that I can think of off the top of my head that made cranberry were Pilgrim and Kanawha.  

Ah, but I think what Frank is asking is, did the makers  call it 'Cranberry', or was that the name collectors gave to it?  :?

Tiger, look at the pinched work on this vase of mine, bought as 'Victorian vaseline glass'  :wink:  and tell me if you think this one could be a relation of yours?  http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2392

The pinched pattern is different to that on all my other generic 'Stourbridge' Victorian Vaseline glass, but looks to me to be very like yours.  I have always thought this one of mine was Bohemian.  

It certainly doesn't contain Uranium in any great quantity, if at all, as it doesn't react noticeably under my little (albeit very weak and quite basic) UV keyring torch!  The 'clear glass' (with apologies to Kevin) doesn't appear to react at all!
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Connie on June 24, 2006, 01:49:25 PM
Yes, the companies I mentioned - Fenton, Pilgrim and Kanawha all called it cranberry which was distinctive from what they called ruby.
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Frank on June 24, 2006, 02:01:05 PM
I think a fair summation that can be applied universally is:

[list=1]
[*]Cranberry - A rich pinkish red.
[*]Ruby - A deep rich red.
[/list:o]

Add opinions for alternative descriptions and we should have clarity on that score.

To write a numbered list in your posting, the code looks like this:
Code: [Select]
[list=1]
[*]Cranberry - A rich pinkish red.
[*]Ruby - A deep rich red.
[/list]
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Tigerchips on June 24, 2006, 06:47:51 PM
Quote from: "Leni"
Quote from: "grayhorse"
Tiger, look at the pinched work on this vase of mine, bought as 'Victorian vaseline glass'  :wink:  and tell me if you think this one could be a relation of yours?  http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2392

The pinched pattern is different to that on all my other generic 'Stourbridge' Victorian Vaseline glass, but looks to me to be very like yours.  I have always thought this one of mine was Bohemian.  

It certainly doesn't contain Uranium in any great quantity, if at all, as it doesn't react noticeably under my little (albeit very weak and quite basic) UV keyring torch!  The 'clear glass' (with apologies to Kevin) doesn't appear to react at all!


Yes, the pinch work looks identical to my vase, and so do these.  :roll:
Two vases (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rare-Pair-19th-Century-Powell-Glass-Vases-Victorian_W0QQitemZ7422726752QQihZ016QQcategoryZ2205QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

My UV torch has a strap that fits onto my head, why? I haven't got a clue, but I look like a twit when I wear them. :?
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Leni on June 24, 2006, 07:08:56 PM
Yes, Tiger, the pinched work on those two did look the same, and I bet they aren't Powell!  I reckon by the price they fetched no-one else thought they were either!   :roll:  :lol:

IMHO the green is 'wrong' for Powell of that age.  The cut edge is also a clue.   Bohemian, unless I'm very much mistaken!  I'd say they were from the same 'family' as yours - and probably mine!  :D
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: heartofglass on June 25, 2006, 01:18:26 PM
The discussion on Ruby & Cranberry has been interesting & enlightening.
My mistake for feeling that these terms were interchangable.
However, doesn't Ruby get called 'gold ruby',thus implying it is the type made with gold rather than selenium?
I'm probably on the wrong track again!
Also very sorry & embarrassed about my multiple posts- not intentional I can assure you all! :oops:
It is because I've been having big problems with posting lately. It takes forever for the post to be entered.
When it's entered, the screen is just blank, with 'done' in the lower frame of my browser (I'm using Firefox).
I end up re-entering it as I can't I can't tell whether it's worked or not.
Posting used to be easy, what has changed to make it so hard?
Title: A cranberry uranium vase and a cranberry style green bowl?
Post by: Frank on June 25, 2006, 01:35:11 PM
Could be a problem with your connection ADSL (Broadband) can play up when the connection from the computer to the box is long and you get a noisy phone line, the strehgth of the signal not being high enough to overcome the noise. Dial-up just slows down a lot with line noise.