Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Bonsaismurf on December 18, 2010, 12:58:14 PM
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Hello!
I found this vase and I was sure it was a Libochovice vase. I thought it was pattern no. 1584 but when I got home and compared them the proportions don't seem to match. Any ideas?
Best Regards
Emil
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I don't think Marcus's CD necessarily shows all the variants. I would say your ID was correct
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Thanks for the support, Christine! I've found another image of the Libochovice pattern, and it doesn't look much like mine. It's the one in blue to the far right:
http://www.miloslavbecka.cz/editace/album/album/055.JPG (big image!!!)
...so I'm still not convinced. A possible explanation could be that mine is relatively new and that the pattern has changed somewhat since the 20's?
Best Regards
Emil
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Emil, I don't think your vase is the Libochovice 1584 - the bird wings are different, and the whole just looks wrong. Pattern 1584 is given in the 1920's and the 1950s catalogues as 25cm (10") tall and made in clear, colours, and frosted.
Neither do I think yours is the version made by Rosice, pattern 2472, also given as 25cm tall, but in the taller, slimmer shape of yours (see the 1957 Rosice catalogue on the CD - page 34) as the base shape and the top rim style are different.
What are the dimensions of your vase, Emil?
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Pamela has what appears to be the same vase as yours but in green in her museum, also attributed as Libochovice 1584, but neither yours nor hers match the catalogue pattern images.
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/vasen/05212.html
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Thanks for the input Anne! I hear what you're saying and there's a good chance you're right. On the other hand there are examples where the illustration of the pattern on the CD differs substantially from the actual object (such as Vizner vase 13141).
Best Regards
Emil
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What size is your vase please?
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It's 26.2cm.
Best Regards
Emil
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So slightly bigger than the catalogue versions but not by much.... curious!
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Hello, just a thought but, Hofbauer, Anne Hutte. Only because their pieces have birds on (a little knowledge is dangerous) I know very little but am learning a lot from here.
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Either could be a copy so a new route always helps. Just need one of their catalogues :huh:
I think Emil's is a closer match to Rosice 2472 and Pamela's the Libochovice 1584. The Rosice catalogue example is loosely drawn.
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Hofbauer, Anne Hutte.
Definitely not
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Hi there
I believe Libochovice is the maker of your vase. It came in 2 different sizes. The smaller one measures at 16cm tall. Dressing table set in similar pattern is also been made.
Cheers
Brenton
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https://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/LibochovickeSklarnyAS02?authkey=Gv1sRgCPTGtIjW9_z4Hg#5464328321006856898
15cm 60s/70s?
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Frank, how do you know this is 60's/70's please?
m
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cover
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The possibility exists that this in not even European. New Martinsville made this vase in several sizes during the early 30s. The 1934 ad is below. Ken
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Adds another size 23cm 9" height :) as well as maker and colours. Nice find. Now to find the differences....
example http://www.kandmantiques.com/Articles/PatternsDefinitions/NewMartinsvillePatterns.html size 10 1/4" 26cm green
http://chataboutdg.com/gallery/img15948.htm no size in clear
Looking at other New Martinsville products I think they either copied other Czech glass or bought copies of the moulds.
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Yes its entirely possible NM either copied the design...not sure they had any molds though as both the Czech & U.S. versions run roughly the same time periods. NM also made a direct copy of the Czech Lady Face bookends. I do know that Harry Barth (Barth Art Glass & former manager of NM) made a copy of the tall standing horse originally designed by Mario Petrucci & Barth made them around 1944. Additionally Several New Martinsville animals molds were actually designed by private giftware distributors (Wiel Freeman, Ebeling & Reuss, and Marks and Rosenfeld) & molds made by NM, but ownership was maintained by the distributors. Example: Molds for the Tigers, Head Up Horse, Eagle & Nautilus figures production in late 1940 were owned by Wiel Freeman. The Starfish & Seahorse originally attributed to NM in early references have turned out to be Paden City production from Barth molds & Harry sold many of his animal molds to NM in 1952 so that caused the confusion as to original attribution. Ken
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But were they copies or purchased rights to copy. It is even possible that they were making on behalf of a czech co pre WW2 and just assumed ownership of moulds after ww2. Czechs were putting moulds to other countries, Lord/Jacobean for example. Not particularly well documented types of deals as often it was done to save shipping costs and original country still sold as made there rather than local.
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I know the giftware distributor molds were all made by NM in 1940. The Dove vase, Lady Face bookends & Barth's Rearing Horse which are Czech copies...I have never seen any documentation one way or another whether they aquired the molds or the molds were made here or if in fact the glass was imported (see below). Two of the three companies that were located roughly 20 miles from one another closed in the early 50s, Paden City & Barth Art in 1951...matter of fact it is suspected that Paden City's animals are all from Barth Art molds plus Paden City did export glass from other countries. New Martinsville was renamed Viking in 1944 under new ownership & Viking operated until 1984 when they closed then reopened in 1986 as Dalzell-Viking until 1998 when the factory closed for good.
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I have a pair of blue ones, measuring at approximately 16cm tall
Comparing my vases with the one made by NM, mine looks a bit slender. Clear on the top, and frosted on the birds.
Cheers
Brenton
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I agree. All the NM ones I've seen are crystal even though they had a light blue in their general line of glass & the overall finish on yours are much better (quality-wise) than NM's. Much sharper in blue too.
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The taller ones seem to be spread more at the , generally. Need more examples and some labelled ones could help too. Noticed a remark on DG site that height varies on degree of spread. Did NM make more than one size?
I guess Emil's that started this thread is possibly NM note that one is 26cm.
Libochovice pattern 1584 had spread at 25cm slimmer at 16cm
Rosice pattern 2472 slimmer 25cm
New Martinville pattern 101 (Morning Dove) (Advert states 9" - 23cm, DG site states 25cm/10" citing spread for height variants)
Degrees of spreading may vary, top rims may vary. Frosting of birds DID vary, colours... lots from all 3 makers.
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Unfortunately NM did not mark 95% of their glass. Only notable exception was their vanity items (powder jars). NM supposedly made a smaller more slender version of the Dove vase later, but evidently not in production very long.
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NM supposedly made a smaller more slender version of the Dove vase later, but evidently not in production very long.
Or that was the Rosice one being assumed NM by US collectors? Sklo Union was also rarely marked, only labelled.
It would be nice if someone can solve this ID dilemma.