Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: waltl on April 09, 2011, 06:27:51 PM
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Dear Friends,
I saw these weights at the Broadfield House Museum in Stourbridge,England. Does anyone know how they were made? I've done some research and I can't find a satisfactory answer. I contacted the Broadfield House Museum. They don't know. I am a glass worker and I can figure out several ways they might have been made, but I'd like to know actually how they were made.
Thanks for your help
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Welcome to the Board.
Good question. Personally I have no idea how a photo (or equivalent print of some form) would successfully be set on an opal ground and then encased, unless the encasement somehow included an internal hollow section.
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I have inspected them closely. They are solid and the photo is continuous tone ( more like a photograph then a newspaper photo which has dots)
There seems to be a white sheet of glass about half way up upon which the photograph is printed. The quality is very high. There are American weights from Pittsburgh that are similar.
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Hi
Thinking back over twenty years I believe I was once told it was a photographic process where the image was printed onto the white disk.
The term Silver Halide ??? was mentioned.
Maybe one of our photographic experts could help
I just checked on Google Silver Halide C1900 and this was quite useful
Roy
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At one time I had a similar curiosity. Knowing the weights were made in the late 1800's to early 1900's, I obtained some early photographic books of the period. The books actualy had sections on developing onto white glass. The chemical formulas were old style and needed to be converted into current chemistry which was beyond me. But I believe it is as simple in concept as applying the equivalent to a black and white photographic emusion (containing the silver halide as pointed out by Roy), which was then photographically exposed with a negative. Some stories have it that natural sunlight was used which would require a very slow reactive emulsion. I am sure that similar results could be obtained in a controlled darkroom. The key is the photo emusion. Obviously current photo paper used in a darkroom has the emulsion pre-applied. I do not know of a source of emulsion that could be applied by oneself.
The white disk is then encased in a paperweight. Apparently the silver halide is not destroyed by the glass encasement temperature.
There are also stories of an emulsion that would leave the surface with varying levels of stickiness when exposed with a negative and that black glass powder was then brushed on which would apply in various densities based on the stickiness of the emulsion. Then it was fired on. Personally I thick this was an "old wives tale" meant to mislead those from finding out how it was actually done.
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Peter Von Brackel describes two procedures to produce a photo weight in his book "Paperweights Historicism - Art Noveau - Art Deco" ISBN 0-7643-1052-6. Page 294.
Warning - abbreviated and paraphrased (the full text is a quarter page).
He mentions the "sticky" procedure, where a light sensitive colloidal solution is applied to a ground and exposed to a photo positive creating a sticky surface onto which a black material can be applied.
Another procedure he mentions is where the positive of a photo negative is applied to a colloid skin and treated with either platinum or iridium chloride.
Photo weights from "Bohemia" were made around the turn of the 20th century, tho differing from the weights mentioned here in that the photos are
often on suplhides which are encased in a glass paperweight. Often siting atop a frit cushion.
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Thanks everyone for your interesting and informative replies. I had thought about silver, but silver generally turns glass yellow at higher temperatures. Silver stain is used in stained glass to produce brilliant transparent yellows. Platinum is however very refractory(resistant to high temperatures) Iridium I have no idea. I have heard about the "sticky" thing, but I can't see how it would produce such smooth continuous tones. Perhaps it would be suitable for some things and not others. Anyway thanks for your help.
Yours truly,
Walt
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I think you can rule out iridium, just too scarce.
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I am not sure what material was used to provide the black, but from my experience of mixing and firing pottery glazes it might well have been iron oxide. I think the silver would burn off when the glass was heated. I don't know how the photographic image was translated into metal powder though - whatever the metal.
Some of these photo weights were made at Thomas Webb's factory in Stourbridge by immigrant Czech workers in the early 20th C - a couple brought two into Broadfield House on a paperweight day a couple of years ago, with images of the woman's (English) grandparents.
Alan
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Dear Mr. Thornton.
Thanks for your most informative reply. I know you posted a long time ago, but I just read it today.
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I have two Bohemian photograph weights where the photo has been set on some kind of white plate. Here is a picture of the oldest one which I believe could have been made around 1900.
When we visited the Lubndberg studios we saw a nice photo weight the workers there had made to commemorate James Lundberg so you could always try asking them how it was made
Dave
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Dear daveweight,
Thanks for letting me see that. It is quite interesting. I will follow-up on the Lundberg weights. There is a modern process, widely available, of the laser jet printing of photographs with ceramic colors. These images are produced as a decal which can then be applied to a sheet of glass and embedded in a paperweight. I use this process in my artwork. The older weights must have used a different process.
If I find anything interesting I will post it.
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Dear daveweight,
I have a Facebook photo album called "Rarely Seen and Unusual Glass" It is purely educational, not commercial. Could I have your permission to post a copy of your Bohemian photo weight ?
Here is a link for you to check it out;
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.434996294292.208134.615909292&type=1&l=87850aed72
I have two Bohemian photograph weights where the photo has been set on some kind of white plate. Here is a picture of the oldest one which I believe could have been made around 1900.
When we visited the Lubndberg studios we saw a nice photo weight the workers there had made to commemorate James Lundberg so you could always try asking them how it was made
Dave
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Yes that is fine to use this picture in your facebook site. As I said, I believe this weight was made around 1890 - 1910 but here is another picture showing tg the identical method of creating these weights but from the young girls appearance I would suggest this is around 1930 - 1950.
Contact me direct if you need higher res images
Dave
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Hi.
I put this one as another example.
Regards.
Marcos.
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Thanks daveweight and marco for your pictures. I find them very interesting. They look like something the workers made themselves perhaps as gifts, rather than a product.
Marco may I post your weight as well? Do you have a higher res or just bigger pic. Its hard to see the little girl in the center. Are the colors correct? It looks like the picture is tinted pink in places.
-Walt
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Not seen this thread before. These are almost certainly produced by normal transfers, there are various means to get a continuous tone image onto the transfer, but most likely photogravure... it is feasible for these to have been made this way as early as 1880s, although the techniques needed would probably date to 1850s. I think there was a significant development c1890 in Bohemia that would explain that connection.
If you are looking to do this today a (maybe) cheaper option would be to find a printer that uses a waterless process as these can print at around 2,500 dot screen, often used for high quality art postcards. You can do photogravure in the darkroom too, might be some photographers using this process still.
For dates of transfer printing technology for glass see http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6965.0.html
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I've had several of these before and sold them. In the US they were used and still exist in a few cemeteries on head stones in the SW Pennsylvanaia area. circa 1900
There is a newer process that Wallace Venable former professor at West Virginia Tech has taught and it involves using an older sepia toned printer. He has it posted on the web somewhere but I can find it right now. He taught a class at the Corning Museum School of Glassmaking several years ago on this technique.
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try:
http://home.comcast.net/~frankgaydos/Decal-1.html
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Dear Frank,
Thanks for the information. My interest is mainly historical, I use modern processes to a similar result in my personal artworks. I am however curious about how it was done back then when they didn't have these processes. I 'd be especially interested if anyone had any documentary evidence such as a patent or contemporaneous descriptions of the process. I 've attached an example of the modern process.
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Sorry for hijacking this thread - but one image on Walt's site (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.434996294292.208134.615909292&type=1&l=87850aed72#!/photo.php?fbid=10150361841969293&set=a.434996294292.208134.615909292&type=3&l=87850aed72&theater) (designated as Italian, no date given) reminds me a lot of the "Schnapshund" glass liquor bottle dogs made in the Flühli region (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,44991.0.html), mostly in the first half of the 19th century.
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Dear Wolf,
You may be right. I saw the piece on auction it was listed as Italian. Not having any documentary evidence to the contrary, I went with their attribution. It may be wrong, I also noticed the "schnapshund" resemblance. I think will adjust that post to mark the questionable attribution. Thank you
Sorry for hijacking this thread - but one image on Walt's site (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.434996294292.208134.615909292&type=1&l=87850aed72#!/photo.php?fbid=10150361841969293&set=a.434996294292.208134.615909292&type=3&l=87850aed72&theater) (designated as Italian, no date given) reminds me a lot of the "Schnapshund" glass liquor bottle dogs made in the Flühli region (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,44991.0.html), mostly in the first half of the 19th century.
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Dear Wuff,
As I thought more about it, I thought that perhaps the Fluhli schnappshund's have an Italian ancestor? Glass makers using older models is pretty common. Or the other way around, it could be an Italian copy of a Swiss piece? What do you think?
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Dear Walt,
I just don't know. The only thing I am fairly sure about is that such an exotic design being developed independently at different places is rather unlikely. Much more likely is that someone saw it - and produced something similar at home (unless both items are Swiss). But which way round? I have no indication whatsoever, whether Italo-Swiss or Swiss-Italo is more likely.
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Dear Wuff,
I agree that the two are linked. If I run across anymore definitive information about their origins I will post it.
Dear Walt,
I just don't know. The only thing I am fairly sure about is that such an exotic design being developed independently at different places is rather unlikely. Much more likely is that someone saw it - and produced something similar at home (unless both items are Swiss). But which way round? I have no indication whatsoever, whether Italo-Swiss or Swiss-Italo is more likely.