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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Trinket Sets => Topic started by: petet63 on February 12, 2013, 11:10:21 AM

Title: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: petet63 on February 12, 2013, 11:10:21 AM
Hi, I would like to know if the Sowerby butterfly set is 5 pieces or six.    1-Tray, 2-Candleholders, 3-Pin Dish, 4-Lidded Pot. That is what the site says it consists of but I have seen somewhere that it may have 2 sizes of lidded pot, could you confirm either way please. It doesn,t seem to have the room for another lidded pot and the idea it has something other than 5 pieces wont go away. Thanks for your help in advance, (I will not be happy if I have to find another mint condition lidded pot  ;D)
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 12, 2013, 11:25:31 AM
Generally they have two pots of differing sizes.  Having two candlesticks and a lid per pot is perhaps more important than having all the pots for resale. Postage is another issue!!

And all the pieces in a trinket set are often counted too, i.e., including the lids. 

Trinket sets are not usually meant to fit all on the tray. The candlesticks are to be set one each side of your dressing table to illuminate your face. The tray catches the spills and drips from the pots.
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: petet63 on February 12, 2013, 11:32:01 AM
The pot I have is 9.5cm diameter and 5.5cm in height (Measured just the pot without the lid). What size is the second pot ? Mine looks to be the smaller one to me. Strange that the second pot idea wouldnt go away  :D Will try to get hold of it and the pin dish. Putting the candle holders either side of a dresser does make sense  ::) Im only a man ;D my excuse and im sticking to it. So two pieces to find still. I have set myself the challenge of putting together a mint condition set for some reason. Thanks Lustrousstone
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: agincourt17 on February 12, 2013, 03:44:36 PM
Anne's GTS site pages on the Sowerby Butterfly 2552 set at
http://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=107
only shows one lidded pot in the Sowerby catalogue , the set consisting of a tray, pair of candlesticks, a single lidded pot, and pintray - 5 pieces (the lidded pot counting as one piece).

Certainly I would only count a lidded pot as one piece rather than two.

I can't recall having seen 2 sizes of lidded pot with a Sowerby Butterfly set, and a quick scan of current and completed ebay listings only show sets with one lidded pot.

As to the 'usual' number of pots in a set - there is no 'rule' as far as I am aware. The Sowerby 2487, 2501 and 2638 sets are only shown in the catalogue as having a single lidded pot. Other sets have 3 pots (usually, but not invariably, 1 large and 2 small). Many other sets have 2 lidded pots (in 2 different sizes).

The pin dish/tray is often seen on eBay either on its own or with other pieces of a part set. The Sowerby butterfly set is common in all the colour combinations so the completion of a mint set using odd pieces should not be a difficult task. good luck.
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 12, 2013, 04:15:06 PM
There are two sizes of pot. And some of the catalogues do count all the pieces in a set
Here is a small one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sowerby-Uranium-Art-Deco-Depression-Small-Green-Glass-Butterfly-Trinket-Pot-NO-1-/261162825927
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: agincourt17 on February 12, 2013, 05:06:38 PM
Thank you, Christine.

I see that the pot in your link has a diameter of 7cm, and Anne's pot measurement is given as 3.5 inches (which is about 89mm).  If there is one only lidded pot listed with a set the actual measurements are rarely given, so I'll pay more attention to the sizes of of pots listed in Sowerby butterly sets in future. and I'll certainly be looking for sets offered with with 2 sizes of pot with renewed interest.

I think Anne usually counts a lidded pot as one piece rather than two (though I'm sure she will soon clarify the situation if not), but I would agree that there is no fixed 'convention' as to how many pieces constitute a single lidded pot. The easiest way surely is to describe the piece simply as a "lidded pot" thereby avoiding any potential confusion, and look at the 'piece count' of a set with quizical detachment pending more detailed appraisal.
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: agincourt17 on February 12, 2013, 06:01:55 PM
Actually I have just found this set with two lidded pots on eBay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lovely-Art-Deco-Butterfly-Patterened-Green-Glass-8pc-Dressing-Table-Set-/181078969144?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item2a2925cb38

I should have remembered it because I was the person who identified the pattern for the seller - Doh!?

The seller didn't give the pot measurements though, and the photo doesn't really show if the pots differ in size, though I suppose if you squint a bit the pot on the left might seem a little smaller.

Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 12, 2013, 09:14:53 PM
Pete says his pot is 9.5 cm...
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: agincourt17 on February 12, 2013, 09:55:36 PM
Perhaps we are looking for three lidded pots of different sizes!
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Simba on February 14, 2013, 03:54:34 PM
I have this set with only one pot measuring 3.5 inches on checking my Sowerby cds from Glen & Stephen Thistlewood the catalogue states only one pot measuring 3.5 inches diameter and it is called a 5 piece set. ;D Although the pottery gazette shows a picture with two pots (and only one candlestick maybe the photographer liked the pots better !!) BUT I have the bottom of a smaller pot measuring 3 inches diameter !!?
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Simba on February 14, 2013, 04:07:23 PM
Just took some pics to demonstrate the difference !! :)
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: petet63 on February 15, 2013, 05:48:26 PM
Seems to be a bit of confusion on this. I have re measured the pot I have. It has an Outside diameter of 3 and 5/8 or 9.5cm. An inside diameter of 3 and 3/8 or 8.5cm. Without the lid it is 5.5cm high. Could new moulds be slightly different in size as one mould only lasts so long ? and the thickness of the glass does sometimes differ slightly as well. Simba's pictures do show two pots that I had in the back of my mind (I need to find a way of finding info in my head !!) one at 3 inches and one at 3 and 5/8 inches so has anyone got the smaller one  ;D I am looking at this as Two pots Two Candle and a Pin Dish with the Tray of six pieces in total. I am a touch OCD (we all are in some way) and when you take the two candles off the tray would the pieces left look odd as if something is missing, a ring holder would even things up and make the tray more balanced. (Just thinking out loud, feel free to ignore that  ;D)

P.S.  I would think of a pot and lid as one item.
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 15, 2013, 06:48:31 PM
There are definitely two sizes of pot, which should be measured in inches. A set with one large pot is a valid set, as per the catalogue. But we don't have all the catalogues, so we don't know if and when they show two pots to a set. Moulds did vary slightly (see the Bagley items here (http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=104) where I reckon post-war cost cuts came into play. This is also true of the cheese dish) but the difference is this case is too much and the larger pot is definitely a post-war size as per the 1956 catalogue. However, the 1935 Pottery Gazette does show two sizes of pot. I suspect pre-war was two pots and post-war one pot. Here is help in dating your set. http://www.sherriff-family.com/butterfly.htm


(I only said the some catalogues count all the bits)

Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Simba on February 15, 2013, 08:47:42 PM
That is a very interesting article in the link you provided. Certainly my green set is not as crisply moulded as the small part frosted trinket pot I pictured before.
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: meegs on February 18, 2013, 06:36:34 AM
Hello everyone,
Just for the records here are a couple of my photos.

The large trinket pot has a diameter of 3 3/4 inches and is 4 1/2 inches to the top of the finial.
The small trinket pot has a 3 inch diameter and is 3 3/4 inches to the top of its finial.
Like Simba the smaller pot appears to be a much crisper mould, possible accentuated by the lovely soft acid etching/frosting.

Cheers
meegs
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Simba on October 16, 2014, 11:08:21 AM
I have finally managed to buy a complete set with the two small pots it is part frosted but only the reverse of the large tray and the actual butterflies are frosted. It is uranium and positively zings !! :) I have included some photos for Anne if she needs them.
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: petet63 on October 16, 2014, 06:55:23 PM
After all this time and I see a complete set...I never did manage to get mine together. A very nice set.
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Anne on October 16, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Thanks Angela, :) I love this set, it is just so substantial yet pretty!
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: Bernard C on October 17, 2014, 09:32:02 AM
Apologies, everyone, commenting so late, as I've only just seen this topic.

I must have bought and sold a dozen or more complete sets over the years, either the seven piece pre-war version or the five piece post-war version.   My recollection is that Adam Dodds told us that he didn't remember the small pot, so it looks as if the small pot mould went walkabouts during the war.   I've never bought incomplete sets because of the different types of frosting and the variability of some colours;  matching them up would be difficult.   I think Adam has commented on this colour aspect.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Sowerby Butterfly, How many pieces ?
Post by: chopin-liszt on October 17, 2014, 03:02:47 PM
I had the bottom part of a pot.
It went into thousands of pieces... ;D  :'(
(thankfully, easy to find with a black light, as it was a uranium one.)

Does anybody know what the proper (as in official) way of disposing of broken uranium glass is?
Is one allowed to just bung it into landfill via one's bins, wrapped up?
Or do you have to contact authorities to have it dealt with as radioactive waste material?