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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: RoynMargaret on October 09, 2007, 12:58:15 PM

Title: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: RoynMargaret on October 09, 2007, 12:58:15 PM

I am trying to see if I still "have my eye in"
 :)

Mod: Nov 2011. Original images lost from Photobucket. Replaced with inline ones below.

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Frank on October 09, 2007, 01:41:29 PM

Not Monart, Nazeing is usually given for these, but just glanced through Geoff Timberlakes book and the shape is not there... have to wait for Geoff or Nigel to drop by.

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: RoynMargaret on October 09, 2007, 03:00:29 PM

Thanks! I thought Monart would be too much to hope for.

I have seen this design shape; similar, but much smaller, and pressed, as Jobling. But never this size (12-in diam) colour and hand blown with concave polished pontil.

Any other comments or opinions on age or designer/maker, for instance, will be appreciated of course :)

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Frank on October 09, 2007, 05:34:24 PM

I have seen a lot of these, same size and a slightly smaller one over the years. Same colour too. My guess is 30's to 50's.

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Cathy B on October 10, 2007, 03:48:29 AM

I think it's on p. 76 of Geoff's book - Posy bowl, sizes 5", 7.5", 10", 12", 14". Neither Roynmargaret's photo nor Geoff's really show the profile particularly well though - it's a mushroom posy vase with a bulbous base and the large rim has a concave wave. Nigel says the shape is correct for Nazeing here:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2209.msg15559.html#msg15559

Anyway, we'll need to wait for Stephen or Nigel to confirm.

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: RoynMargaret on October 10, 2007, 09:37:39 AM

Thanks again. The "picture" is building. I have had a look at the other photo references and also at one sold recently on eBay and the "Nazeing" green appears very grey by comparison. My photos were taken in natural light without flash and are a good representation of the true colour and mottling.

The rim sweeps down over the "stem" to be barely 10mm from the shelf.

At the moment a description could be:

1930's/50's 12-in Diameter Nazeing Posy Bowl May Green Colour

Obviously I wish to be accurate and correct. Would I need any disclaimers?

At the moment I am very pleased with myself at not "passing this by"... Have not lost the "eye" even 'tho I can no longer get out very often.  :mus:

http://members.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=cornucopiacollectables

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: nigel benson on October 10, 2007, 01:33:15 PM

Hi all,

Not Nazeing I'm afraid.

I bet this has a wonderful concave pontil that is nicely polished? - Not a Nazeing characteristic. Nor is the way the the colour is laid in with the spattered technique as opposed to the more usual finer crushed enamel with 'pea-cock eyes', or, small bubbles with the colour collected around them. The colour in this case is too bright to be May Green and too light to be Sherwood Green, making it somewhere in the middle. I seem to remember that the shape of the base, or bowl, section is wrong for Nazeing as well - but don't quote me on that one!

As with the amber/brown and aventurine vase in another recent thread this posy bowl belongs with the same group of pieces often mistaken as Monart in the past and often, without any positive proof (certainly in this case), thought to be Czech.

When we attended the Nazeing Museum opening last month Andy McConnell asked myself, Geoff Timberlake and Christina Glover (of Circa Glass) to go through the shelves and re-identitfy items (at the end of the day). In the short time available we re-attributed various things on the general British glass shelves. We also took out all the S&W pieces that had been attributed to Nazeing, as well as several of these posy bowls. Other colours for these posy bowls include a sort of pale blue that seems to have a 'dirty' hue to it and an orange version. (BTW, we are all returning to the Museum on the 18th, to attempt a thorough overhaul of the Nazeing in order to help give it a better narrative and to try to establish what is, isn't, and might be, Nazeing. It should be an interesting, and hopefully productive day.)

Hope this helps, Nigel

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Bernard C on October 10, 2007, 03:45:07 PM

Quote from: nigel benson

... As with the amber/brown and aventurine vase in another recent thread this posy bowl belongs with the same group of pieces often mistaken as Monart in the past and often, without any positive proof (certainly in this case), thought to be Czech. ...

Interesting.   Having two examples of Wuidart in stock, I wonder what, in the event of no documentary evidence, would have been made of them.   "Colours not quite right for WF — probably Czech", perhaps?

There are still plenty of opportunities for British sources for these mystery ranges, including glass houses that we thought we knew fairly well, as per the WF/Wuidart range.   Baker & Crowe tells us of pressed glass Jobling specials made for M&S (records destroyed in the London blitz), so could there have been distinctive hand-made ranges for M&S, who, we know, preferred home sourcing.  I was amazed to see the three Wood Bros vases made for Dartington in Thrower & Hill and on display at Cambridge;  possible evidence, I believe, for considerable expertise in the production of hand-made vases — so what else has Wood Bros been making over the years?

I am not suggesting not Czech or, more broadly, not central European, merely that the options still include many British glass houses, possibly including some that are "well-known".

Bernard C.  8)

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Frank on October 10, 2007, 05:06:21 PM

Especially, as they only turn up in the UK. An interesting aspect of this and Nazeing is the small bubbles...

...not quite sure what that suggests, but perhaps similarity in the working methods. Some small bubbles do appear in some Monart, but not unintentionally to this extent. Could it be that the colours used were contaminated with a vaporisable material... if so was it intentional or not?

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: RoynMargaret on October 10, 2007, 08:19:49 PM

Okay, Okay, already. Not Monart, not Nazeing, may be British, may be Czech ...  :huh:

"Rare European hand-blown 12-in diameter spatter-mottled green glass posy bowl ..." :mrgreen:

It has to be rare, since no-one seems to have seen one quite like it.  >:D

I continued to be in awe of the detailed knowledge here. I am going to come back with some amber pressed glass ... it seems safer. :clap: Or a lovely Deco cut lead crystal double inkwell ... :hiclp:

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Cathy B on October 11, 2007, 03:22:35 AM

Brilliant, thank you Nigel, Bernard and Frank for the education! Interesting point about the bubbles, Frank. They don't appear to add a great deal aesthetically, do they.

My mushroom posy has a roughly polished pontil with a bit of the break scar still showing, and is a much lighter green more consistent with Geoff's illustration. At some stage I'll dig it out again and try for a better photograph, just for the comparison - unless someone else has one that they'd like to add to the mix.

Roynmargaret, You might like to start another thread for each of the other pieces you have. That way they will each get the proper attention.

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Frank on October 11, 2007, 08:16:49 AM

Certainly NOT rare, Nigel and I would have handled dozens of these over the years, I often get pictures of them in the email asking if they are Monart and they pop up frequently on eBay UK where they fetch a few pounds.. so don't get too excited.

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: nigel benson on October 11, 2007, 06:47:32 PM

Hiya,

Thanks for making the point about how often these bowls turn up, Frank  ;)

Bernard, I am with you on this. Since there is no positive attribution for this particular group of posy bowls they could come from anywhere, including, of course the UK, so it is important to be circumspect. However, it seemed pertinent to draw attention to the assertion most often made over the years, without any positive proof. I certainly was not saying in the absence of any other satisfactory explanation, 'let's call 'em Czech!'

Frank has a labelled piece on his website of another, similar styled, item, and I have owned another (in my case the sort with diagonal stripes and mica); each have/had Czech labels. Certainly not proof for the posy bowl in question, merely a parallel that may have relavance in view of similar characteristics used in the production of the various pieces.

Until such time as some form of proof occurs, you are right to suggest other sources for thier production.

Kind regards, Nigel

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: Frank on October 11, 2007, 07:28:21 PM

What do you think about the bubbles Nigel?

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: nigel benson on October 11, 2007, 11:08:18 PM

Hmmm,

The bubbles, the bubbles.......... which also occur in a very similar way in Gray-stan.

Sadly, the only ex-Nazeing glass-blower that I am aware of who may have been able to make some comment about this bubble effect in Nazeing pieces is no longer with us, having passed away about 18 months ago. I'm sure Adam may be able to make some comment about the technicalites, but I will leave commenting further until either after the 18th, when I can make a direct comparison between a posy bowl like this and pieces of Nazeing from various eras - or until I can route around in the loft to check my rogue's gallery of mistaken identy pieces, whichever is sooner :)

Kind regards, Nigel

Title: Re: Could this 12-in green glass posy vase be Monart?
Post by: KevinH on November 25, 2011, 12:31:40 AM

Email request for resurrection of original images has been sent.

And now, less than 30 minutes later, they are set up in the original post.
Thanks to RoynMargaret for the extremely rapid response. ;D