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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: Nick77 on July 30, 2012, 01:25:22 PM

Title: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Nick77 on July 30, 2012, 01:25:22 PM
Just got this one from eaby, photo was not good on line and thought there might be a signature cane in the centre but if it is its not readable, if anything to me looks like it might read 92 or 94.
Does anyone recognise the maker?
Its 85mm diameter.

many thanks
Nick
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: Roger H on July 30, 2012, 02:39:17 PM
Not sure but may be a Selkirk glass weight.
     Regards Roger.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: m1asmithw8s on July 30, 2012, 03:10:45 PM
Strathern

Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: Nick77 on July 30, 2012, 03:38:29 PM
Thanks Mark yes it's a Strathearn D4 http://strathearn.smugmug.com/Strathearn-Paperweights/D4-Flower-Magnum/258343_XCrPcW#!i=11817555&k=2RYkQ (http://strathearn.smugmug.com/Strathearn-Paperweights/D4-Flower-Magnum/258343_XCrPcW#!i=11817555&k=2RYkQ), didn't even consider Strathearn in my searches having only had their millefiori weights so far. So a good buy at £13 I think :)
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: Nick77 on July 30, 2012, 04:45:52 PM
With a high power loupe I can now see the centre date cane reads 69.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: Roger H on July 30, 2012, 04:57:02 PM
Thats interesting, but who I wonder made the flower, its pretty good for a 1969.  I believe Vincent Ysart and Jack Allen were there at the beginning of Strathearn, wonder if one of those two made the flower.
       Regards Roger.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: tropdevin on July 30, 2012, 05:18:49 PM
***

If you come to the PCC meeting in October, you can ask Dave Moir, who is the speaker. He worked at Vasart and Strathearn, and is sure to know who made these flowers (it may even have been him...he makes similar ones now).

Alan
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: Roger H on July 30, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
Thank you, will do my best if we can get through the county borders( passport has run out). Didn't know Dave worked there, but then I have a very limited knowledge.
           Regards Roger.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: tropdevin on July 30, 2012, 08:23:15 PM
***

Hi Roger.

Dave worked with Ysart Bros, Vasart and Strathearn, and ended as the Head Glass Blower for Strathearn.

Alan
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight
Post by: KevinH on July 30, 2012, 10:40:26 PM
Edited to confirm that I had misunderstood something told to me a few years ago. My comments in this post should therefore be disregarded and I apologise for any confusion and upset that I may have caused.

And before anyone asks, Dave Moir did not make any paperweights at any of the companies he worked for. He did, however, assist in a few weights with powderd glass setups etc., but that was it.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on July 31, 2012, 12:56:21 PM
Interesting point Roger.  The flower is almost identical to this flower in the rain I have

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r267/pooleandpaperweights/DSC_0263.jpg

The key thing is this flower in the rain is blieved to be a trial, and is rather unusual as it has a JA cane in the base!

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r267/pooleandpaperweights/DSC_0267.jpg

Ian
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Lustrousstone on July 31, 2012, 02:10:00 PM
But isn't the Flower in the Rain a Caithness trial... Did you take it to the Edinburgh Conference? Or am I confused as usual?
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on July 31, 2012, 02:13:20 PM
It's marked CIIG and has been seen on here before. I didnt take it to any conference though....

Ian
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: KevinH on July 31, 2012, 09:14:41 PM
For additional interest:

The design of the flower itself follows on from similar items made by Salvador Ysart in the Ysart Brothers years and was very likely a more solid version of his upright "frit-flower" weights believed to be genuinely pre-war items.

But as with many such things, upright flowers of that type were also made in the 19th century in Europe. So Jack Allan's Flower-In-The-Rain weights was a more modern, and very attractive,  version of an old style. And even mroe modern versions were continued in Scotland by, at least, Willie Manson in his own studio.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Roger H on July 31, 2012, 10:13:22 PM
The theme makes sense but when did Jack work for Caithness?
        Regards Roger.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: KevinH on July 31, 2012, 11:03:12 PM
Actual dates are unceratin, but I think JA was at Caithness for only a very few years starting 1973 or 1974. His Flower In The Rain design was listed as 1974.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 01, 2012, 06:12:47 AM
Andy Nowson would know, as would Dave Moir (he gave a talk on Jack at the Edinburgh conference)
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Derek on August 01, 2012, 08:06:03 PM
Hi all

Some information about Jack Allan at Caithness..................

Ken Wainwright was the hot glass tutor at Edinburgh College of Art but went to Caithness at Oban in 1972 as site manager
and took on Jack Allan from Perthshire Paperweights also in 1972.

Jack worked mainly at Oban but also a short period at Wick. While at Caithness he designed the Caithness version of
flower in the rain and also the first true crown weight for Caithness to celebrate the wedding of Princess Anne to Mark Phillips. 

Flower in the rain is listed in Charlton as a 1974 weight but several examples exist with a JA73 cane - weights are designed
at least the year previous that that when they appear as a Caithness production weight.
 
Jack left Caithness in 1973 and returned to Perth and possibly worked at the Moncrieff MONAX factory in St. Catherines Road.

Best regards

Derek



Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 01, 2012, 08:12:52 PM
Can the JA cane in mine be dated to a specific time period?

Was one of those fair moments when you pick up something which looks pretty normal, turn it over, and realise it definately isn't normal!

Ian
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Derek on August 01, 2012, 08:38:12 PM
Hi Ian

Given that your weight is a Caithness second* and has a JA cane in it is can only have been made in either 72 or 73.

*  Caithness used this term to indicate weights which to not conform to the master design in some way but also marked
trial and sample pieces on sale in the shop with CIIG.

Best regards

Derek
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Wuff on August 01, 2012, 09:51:08 PM
That's interesting, but who I wonder made the flower, its pretty good for a 1969.  I believe Vincent Ysart and Jack Allen were there at the beginning of Strathearn, wonder if one of those two made the flower.
Regards Roger.
Just got a response from Dave Moir:
Quote
These weights were made by Herbert Dreier and myself at Strathearn; we both made petals and we both made flowers. We used to swap jobs so as we did not get bored, and contrary as to what Kevin Holt says, that I never made paperweights, it is time he wised up, and if he is at the Knowle meeting when I'll give my talk in October, I will take great pleasure in making him aware of the fact.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: KevinH on August 01, 2012, 11:52:48 PM
Good to see that input from Dave Moir.

I must have misunderstood what was said at a PCC meeting a few years ago.

Edited to add that I have amended my earlier post. I also add here my apologies for my error.
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 02, 2012, 06:03:27 AM
I wouldn't argue with Big Dave  ;D
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: mjr on August 02, 2012, 11:26:42 AM
too true. get  Big Dave, Big John and Big me in a room together and it is full ;)
Title: Re: Unknown maker of this very nice flower weight ID = Strathearn D4, 1969
Post by: Wuff on August 02, 2012, 02:00:28 PM
Dave Moir has added some more info:
Quote
Strathearn used three colours for Flower Weights - the following Klaus Kugler Colours:
Türkis-Blau
Dunkel-Blau
Dunkel-Rosa
Klaus Kugler (Augsburg, Germany) had produced rods of concentrated colour for use by glassblowers worldwide. The firm is no longer in production, however.