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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: chriscooper on August 14, 2012, 02:31:35 PM

Title: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 14, 2012, 02:31:35 PM
Bought a 'lot' of Scottish glass including Strathearn, Vasart, and Perthshire Paperweights vases and some signed Selkirk Paperweights.
The one I am having trouble with is this one...
https://picasaweb.google.com/107067405711297858658/SelkirkGlassPeterHolmesRainbowCascade#
'marked' on the base Selkirk glass Scotland 1999
Research tells me it's called Rainbow Cascade and made by Peter Holmes?
Further research led me to this listing on eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380439446781?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Which I read as Peter Holmes made these  weights for Caithness in 1974 no reference to Selkirk Glass in the listing but if I am reading it right the weight in the listing is 1 of 2 made on commission for him by Peter Holmes
It looks identical to the one I have? so did PH make the same designed weight for Caithness and Selkirk and also on commission/
Confused!! Chris
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 14, 2012, 02:56:52 PM
I'm always dubious about that seller's attributions; I'd contact Peter
http://www.scottishbordersartglass.com/about.htm
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 14, 2012, 03:46:01 PM
You can believe that seller, he is a friend of Peter's and the sellers wife (I think) does the polishing on the weights made by Peter at scottish borders art glass.  Looks like Selkirk made some in 1999, though I would doubt Peter made it himself as it doesnt have his cane or signature.

Ask the seller, hes usually approachable, name is Rob Scott.

Ian
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 14, 2012, 06:21:14 PM
Had a reply from the seller that the weight in the listing was made by Peter at Scottish Borders in 2007.
Still confused about mine though Ian which looks identical to the known Peter Scott one he made at Scottish borders, so is mine just an everyday weight from Selkirk who just happened to copy the Rainbow Cascade design? though I believe Peter was there at that time? and it is definitely not listed in the 1999 production catalogue.
Chris
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 14, 2012, 07:03:12 PM
Wouldn't be the first time Ive seen selkirk doing a caithness weight.  Peter was of course there pre 1977 when he started Selkirk.

It also may well not be in the catalogue for 1999 as it could be a standard production weight, but I havent seen it before, so ask Peter!

Ian
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 14, 2012, 08:42:58 PM
Apparently Peter Holmes made the original Rainbow Cascade in 1974 at Caithness with a PH cane then again in 1975 with a CG cane.
I have talked to a well known paperweight collector who has not seen a Selkirk Cascade either in a catalogue or in the 'flesh'?
I have 'swapped' Photos with the owner of the one from the commissioned pair made by  Peter for him at Scottish Borders in 2007 and are identical in both colour and design. He seems quite knowledgeable and he too says he has never seen a Selkirk 'Cascade' either.
Chris
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 14, 2012, 08:55:44 PM
Which is why it's a strange weight.  I also specifically collect Selkirk and Peter's work and I've never seen one either!  Must be a test piece, probably made by Peter.  Would be nice to find out if he did or not!

For some pics of my selkirk collection you should be able to flick through and see it from here

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r267/pooleandpaperweights/DSC_0146.jpg

Ian
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 14, 2012, 08:58:54 PM
Have to say I just flicked through and love the Penguin weight, and the world weight, both Selkirk.  Not seen those before either!

http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r267/pooleandpaperweights/?action=view&current=DSC_0160.jpg

Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: SophieB on August 14, 2012, 08:59:26 PM
Hi there,

I am away from home and so cannot check my documentation but I am pretty sure that Selkirk issued a 'Millennium cascade' like yours as part of the Millennium collection (i.e. in 2000). I understand your 'cascade' is dated 1999 but some of the millennium weights were made late 1999 (I own a limited edition 'Millennium Planet' dated 1999). I seem to remember that the 'Millennium cascade' was an unlimited edition.

And yes, it is Selkirk's version of the Caithness 'Rainbow Cascade', a weight that Peter Holmes use to make when he was at CG. 

SophieB
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 14, 2012, 09:02:43 PM
Interesting, and there is a Millenium Crown amongst those picture of mine.
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: SophieB on August 14, 2012, 09:15:04 PM
Hi Ian,

Yes, there was also a Millennium Crown in that collection (I do not own one but I have seen it in somebody else's collection). And yours is indeed a nice Crown (sigh).

By the way, I acquired the Selkirk Penguin just before Christmas. It is a great weight, I was really pleased... And without your pictures, I would never have known that this edition really existed. So thanks.

SophieB

Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: Wuff on August 14, 2012, 10:14:03 PM
Still confused about mine though Ian which looks identical to the known Peter Scott one he made at Scottish borders, so is mine just an everyday weight from Selkirk who just happened to copy the Rainbow Cascade design? though I believe Peter was there at that time? and it is definitely not listed in the 1999 production catalogue.
Correct - not listed in the 1999 catalogue - but a very similar weight is listed in 2000 as Millennium Fountain: your weight (dated 1999) might be a design study leading to Millennium Fountain, which was limited to 500. It is certainly different from the Rainbow Cascade Peter Holmes made at Caithness in 1974.
The story on ebay (about PH making two fountains in 2007 whilst running Scottish Borders Art Glass) may still be correct - just names mixed up(?).
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: Wuff on August 14, 2012, 10:31:23 PM
I have talked to a well known paperweight collector who has not seen a Selkirk Cascade either in a catalogue or in the 'flesh'?
Selkirk made actually 4 weights with Cascade in the name - they just look completely different:
1991 Silver Cascade (LE 500)
1998 Ruby Cascade (LE 150)
2001 Golden Cascade (LE 500)
2003 Cascade (LE 350)
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 14, 2012, 10:48:43 PM
What does  the Millennium Crown have on the base Ian is it named with a limited edition number and dated 2000?
Seems poor marketing to issue a Millennium Cascade paperweight to celebrate the Millennium in 2000 without naming it on the base and signing it 1999? what would be the point. If has you say Sophie it's a standard production unlimited run where are the others?  surely there would be lots  around? now of course this could just be wishful thinking on my part ;) I am not normally one for going into denial it is was it is, I am not a collector so I need to know purely for accuracy.
Thank you for your help so far Chris
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 14, 2012, 11:21:43 PM
Thanks Wuff, the Peter Scott was a typo I have added some pictures to make it easier to compare.
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on August 15, 2012, 08:20:25 AM
What does  the Millennium Crown have on the base Ian is it named with a limited edition number and dated 2000?

Yes, "Selkirk Glass Millenium Crown 57/200 2000", the top cane says PH 1000 though

Ian
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: Wuff on August 15, 2012, 08:41:07 AM
What does  the Millennium Crown have on the base Ian is it named with a limited edition number and dated 2000?
Seems poor marketing to issue a Millennium Cascade paperweight to celebrate the Millennium in 2000 without naming it on the base and signing it 1999?
I have never held a Millennium Crown in hands and consequently I don't know how they are signed - but usually limited editions are signed with name, edition number/edition size. The year as signed by Selkirk is always the year a particular weight was made, irrespective of design or first issue - which is why you can find the same weight with different years in many cases. Whether the Millennium weights were still made after 2000 I wouldn't know - they don't show up in later catalogues.
With Millennium weights there might be a dilemma: many of them will have been produced in 1999 - to be in the shops in time. I would still expect them to be signed with name and edition info - if this is missing (as in your weight) this might indicate a design study, not one of the final, limited edition production weights.

Several clear glass weights are not inscribed on the base, as this would influence the appearance - I have a Bluebell weight for example, where this is the case, but it includes a PH cane instead; name and edition info are on the certificate only.
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 15, 2012, 08:51:02 AM
Here is a real marked Millennium Fountain, as opposed to a catalogue image. Looks just like yours
http://www.tooveys.com/lots.asp?WEBLOTID=191570&LOTID=1485
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 15, 2012, 02:06:36 PM
Spoke to Peter Holmes this morning Christine you were correct I think with the Millennium Fountain link, Sophie so close with your 'assumption, and Wuff you take the 'honours' spot on!!
Will clear it all up later just waiting for Peter to get back to me with permission to 'quote' him on here.
Chris
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 16, 2012, 03:49:56 PM
Peter confirmed the paperweight is a sample weight for the Millennium 2000 range and would have remained in the showroom. When the receivers were trying to sort things just before the place closed they sold of the showroom samples and this was one of them.
Peter also confirmed that not many were made even when they were put into production in 2000.
Chris
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 16, 2012, 06:54:36 PM
Post deleted
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 16, 2012, 07:29:10 PM
The one I asked Peter about is the one I own at the top of the thread marked Selkirk glass Scotland 1999 Christine ;D
The one in the eBay link is a different animal made for the seller by Peter on commission at Scottish Borders glass studio to replicate the earlier Caithness Rainbow cascade he made in 1974, apparently for a customer. It is marked on the base Scottish Borders Art Glass 2007
Both items are what they are so on this occasion the eBay sellers  description is spot on :)   
Chris
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 16, 2012, 07:42:15 PM
They look identical (as near as damn it) and no mention is made of marking, but I'll delete my post
Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: rosieposie on August 22, 2012, 03:46:14 PM
Strikes me you have gone to a lot of trouble Chris to make sure about the true provenance of this weight. I'm sure everybody appreciates this, even if there is little or no acknowlegement.

I also know the seller of the other weight that was specially commissioned,  I have bought many pieces of Selkirk glass from him and found him to be a gentleman in every sense of the word.

Personally, I would not sell this weight without putting a very good realistic start price that won't hurt if it doesn't go higher.  In fact, in view of the special nature of it,  should you be selling it al all?

I don't collect paperweights, but I do have a Colin Terris Designed one called Millennium Vision, a limited edition made in 1999. given to me by my Sister.  I wouldn't part with it for the world.

Title: Re: Peter Holmes Rainbow Cascade
Post by: chriscooper on August 22, 2012, 06:18:39 PM
Rosie, you know I get don't collect glass any more it's far too expensive. I get  pleasure out of finding special pieces for  collectors and the appreciation from them makes me happier than any money ever could.

Chris