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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: lyndhurst44 on October 31, 2006, 04:15:22 PM

Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: lyndhurst44 on October 31, 2006, 04:15:22 PM
Hi,
Does anyone recognise this as being Whitefriars please. I tried to list it on the Whitefriars site but can't find the link- DOH! :roll:
http://i11.tinypic.com/2ufbn0w.jpg

Thanks,
Bryn (not Brian)

"It's a minefield out there!" :mrgreen:  :wink:  :D
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: Cathy B on November 01, 2006, 04:55:29 AM
Bryn,
I'm only an enthusiast and not an expert, but I'd say this one isn't WF. Link to the site is www.whitefriars.com, then click on the Is It Whitefriars? link.
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: David E on November 01, 2006, 11:21:17 AM
Bryn, you need to log onto the WF.com site before you upload images to 'IsIt WF'. I'd agree with Cathy though - not WF, but I'm no expert either.
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: Pat on November 01, 2006, 07:58:27 PM
I'm no expert as such but I do colect some Whitefriars and I would say no to tthat bowl being WF.
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: selina on November 01, 2006, 10:32:26 PM
Hi,

No idea on maker sorry, but I have a bowl very similar but in blue. Mine has a signature on the bottom. B 1923 so maybe that will help identify both.

bowl
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3953

signature
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3952

Selina
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: lyndhurst44 on November 02, 2006, 06:05:09 PM
Hi,
Thanks everyone for your advice. Sorry for the delay in replying but I've been away on business for a couple of days and could not get to a computer to check my messages. :oops:
I recently saw an identical bowl listed on Ebay which was discribed as being by Whitefriars , but nothing new there!!! That was the reason I asked the question.
It sold for about £9 as far as I can remember. I think everyone with a piece of glass with the trademark Whitefriars polished pontil automatically assumes it to be by WF.
Your sig and date are interesting though Selina I would be quite suprised if it were that old.
Cheers,
Bryn (not Brian)

"It's a minefield out there!" :mrgreen:  :wink:  :D
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: David E on November 02, 2006, 06:24:23 PM
Quote
I think everyone with a piece of glass with the trademark Whitefriars polished pontil automatically assumes it to be by WF.

Or Webb. I've noticed a few auctions listing as "Whitefriars/Webb", although I understand that every Webb item has the acid-etched logo by the ground pontil.
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: selina on November 02, 2006, 10:57:07 PM
Hi again Bryn,

Ive never had cause to doubt it as it was bought quite a long time ago. Most of my glass was, I started buying bits and pieces years and years ago, before art glass collecting was even popular here. Back then you could pick up pieces everywhere for next to nothing so people had no reason to fake signatures and the like. Now I must admit, I havent learnt very much over those years...I collected purely on what I liked and what appealed to me in art glass or anything else. I ended up with quite a lot of overseas glass by default as Australia has quite a high migration from other countries :) And also to my delight, Italian immigrants came over in the early days and bought a lot of glass with them.

These days Im more inclined to not buy anything because of the cheaper copies and the Chinese art glass that has flooded the market. Also the replica glass etc etc..it goes on and on.  Most of my buys were from garage sales, ppl selling off 'old fashioned' items to make room for the new or car boot sales.

So I think it could be more than likely that the date on this bowl..one of the very first I ever bought..could be correct :)

Selina
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: Pinkspoons on November 02, 2006, 11:10:50 PM
On the flip-side, it could also be a pattern/production code etched onto the glass, rather than a date.
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: selina on November 02, 2006, 11:18:15 PM
Yep, it could be...so that would help us identify either of the bowls if anyone recognises it  :D

Selina
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: Bernard C on November 03, 2006, 12:02:27 AM
Quote from: "DenCill"
Quote
... I understand that every Webb item has the acid-etched logo by the ground pontil.

Where did you find that assertion, David?

If you exclude studio glass, limited editions, trial and experimental pieces, trade samples and pressed glass, I cannot think of a single range of British factory glass that would meet this assertion.   Possibly Stuart ring-moulded comes closest, but I have had at least two examples through my hands with no marks at all.

Foreign glass is nearly as difficult.   Flygfors Coquille comes to mind as a possibility, if you widen the search to include engraved marks, but do we fall into the trap of assuming that all unmarked examples must be non-Flygfors look-alikes?

Bernard C.  8)
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: David E on November 03, 2006, 12:13:11 AM
Quote
Where did you find that assertion, David?

I have noted many things during my research through Pottery Gazette and Glass Trade Review or Pottery and Glass magazines. This was an advert or review where it was positively stated - something along the lines of "every item is marked to assure quality". I know this is vague, but I have had to accumulate a lot of knowledge recently and it did confirm what I had always thought, hence the reason for it sticking. Sure, I suppose there may be some rare examples where a mark doesn't feature, which is why I did say "I understand that every Webb item has the acid-etched logo..."
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: Frank on November 03, 2006, 12:24:51 AM
In my experience, unmarked Webb did not use to be as rare as marked Webb. This could be that twenty years ago much of the signed Webb had not got to market and it was mostly the older stuff out there. It is at least 16 years since I touched a piece of Webb.
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: Bernard C on November 03, 2006, 07:21:04 AM
David — The 1939 Royal Brierley Crystal retail catalogue states on every page
Quote
See the safeguard of quality marked on every piece . . . the name 'Royal Brierley'.

I expect they all said more or less the same thing in their PR.

In the real world, you get a big order in from a trade buyer who doesn't like their glass marked, then you "forget" to mark it.   You don't want their next order going down the road to one of your competitors.

In the same way, "quality" varied according to the buyer.   Royal Brierley pontil mark finishes were of three types, rough, ground out, and de-luxe feature finishes.   I think it's fairly obvious which type would have gone to Liberty's and which would have gone to Joe Smith's Emporium and General Stores in some small unknown town.

The most important book I ever had through my hands was a late C19 Hobson's Fox-Hunting Atlas.    These were made up to order, and this example had been ordered by an unknown Derbyshire farmer.   The Derbyshire map and those of the adjoining counties were OK, but the rest of the atlas was made up with rejects and out-of-date maps.   The Cornwall map had been overprinted with the Devon hunt boundaries!    Well, it was a map historian's dream find.    That one junk atlas sorted out virtually the complete history of the atlas, much of which was previously unknown.   Hobson's atlases previously owned by Lord this or Earl that told us nothing.

Anyway the point I was making is that PR and reality often don't have much in common, not just in glass but across the whole retail sector.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: whitefriars bowl
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 03, 2006, 12:41:39 PM
And doesn't marked sometimes mean a sticker...