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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: aurora4u on April 28, 2006, 04:24:31 AM

Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 28, 2006, 04:24:31 AM
I have a set of crucifix candlesticks known to be from the imperial glass company, these rare candle sticks are known in mary gold carnival glass and crystal. mine are crystal the crucifix candle stick is 9 1/2" tall and is very heavy glass. If anyone has any information on these or can give me an approximate appraisal please contact me.

 The information I have is that they were given to my grand parents fpr a wedding gift in the early 1900's.
 Thank you
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: chuggy on April 28, 2006, 06:44:53 AM
When I had my auction house we sold a pair of these back in 1999 for £740, I never knew if that was good or bad, but we did have 4 phone bidders on them.
Paul
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 28, 2006, 06:48:28 AM
thank you , um i.m canadian ...what is E740 ? .....do you have any data on them ?
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Della on April 28, 2006, 06:52:21 AM
Hi,
At todays rate, 740 euro is 1,041.73 Canadian Dollars :lol:  :lol:
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: chuggy on April 28, 2006, 06:54:31 AM
I'm afraid not, but I'm Glen will be able to give you the full run down on them when she comes in later as she really is the queen of carnival glass and extremely knowledgeable. Not sure what the Cad $ is at present, but that equates to around 1,260 US$.
Paul
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 28, 2006, 06:56:15 AM
thx for the cash values .......... does any one have info on them ? ...... when, where , who made them,  where they originated ?
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Della on April 28, 2006, 06:58:56 AM
Ah, Paul wrote the English pound sign, not the euro sign.

According to xe.com, at todays exchange rate it would be Canadian $1,496.77.........even better :lol:  :lol:
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 28, 2006, 06:58:57 AM
thank you to all that responded so far ...... appreciate the input
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Bernard C on April 28, 2006, 07:45:13 AM
Quote from: "chuggy"
... Not sure what the Cad $ is at present, but that equates to around 1,260 US$.
Paul

OK you clever people, how do you know that aurora4u is Canadian?   Is this some obvious technical wizardry I'm missing out on?

Bernard C.  :?
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Della on April 28, 2006, 07:52:58 AM
Hi Bernard,

Quote from: "aurora4"
thank you , um i.m canadian ...what is E740 ? .....do you have any data on them ?


No , I am not magic.......I wish. :wink:  :wink:  :lol:

Although it does often help if you put your location in your profile aurora4.
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Bernard C on April 28, 2006, 07:57:14 AM
Oooooooooooooops!*!

In defence of my stupidity, most new members forget to include this useful information!

Bernard C.  :oops:
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Glen on April 28, 2006, 08:23:23 AM
Imperial in the USA made the Crucifix candlesticks in the early 1900s (shown in their 1904 catalog as no. 119). They are known in crystal and marigold Carnival (and I believe, milk glass and purple too, but I have not seen these). The item has been reproduced, but it's pretty easy to spot the repros.

The original Imperial Crucifix should have an 8 sided base. The repros have 6 sides. The arms of the cross itself are somewhat rounded, unlike the repros which are squared and sharp.

I can't give you any information on the value of crystal examples. The marigold ones, however, are very sought after. They are rare and I am aware of single ones - in perfect condition - selling as much as $1000 (US).

A pair of marigold ones just sold on eBay for £255, however. But note there was significant damage. The item number is 7408984521

Glen
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Cathy B on April 28, 2006, 10:01:08 AM
Hi Glen,

Crucifix candlesticks appear in some of the Crown Crystal catalogues, but whether they were imported, from an imported mould or whether they did them themselved I have no idea. I have about 6 of them hidden away somewhere, all in clear, each is different, and none seems to match the one in the Crown catalogue. At some point, can I dig them out and get you to have a look and give your wisdom as to where they all might have come from?

Were they the sort of thing that would have been in constant production since the beginning?

Thanks in advance,

Cathy
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Glen on April 28, 2006, 10:19:04 AM
Hi Cathy - it's an interesting question. I have the 1934 Crown Crystal catalogue in front of me and I can see No. 289 is the Crucifix candlestick. I would say that the one in the CC catalogue looks like the Imperial 8 sided base one. There's another Imperial item that appears to be in the CC catalogues - the Starspray bowl - so I guess it's possible they bought a batch in.

Of course, Bushell's catalogues featured a number of USA made glass items too, so perhaps there were some surplus "job lots" imported  :lol:

I'd be delighted to look at your candlestick pics, but I really only know the Imperial one by sight (we do have a marigold example here).

Nice to chat with you again - and I trust that your other studies are going well  :lol:

Glen
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 28, 2006, 03:29:28 PM
Thank you all for your information ...... It would appear mine are original as the bases is 8 sided and the cross is slightly rounded as are hands.

I changed my profile to include where i'm from ( Bernard  :lol: )
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Hotglass on April 28, 2006, 08:36:29 PM
I think you guys are (unintentionally) misleading the lady with those high valuations.

The scarcity, demand and availablity of the Carnival version is vastly different to the clear.

Chuggy, yours may have been original Sandwich ones which would explain their price. Either that or your bidders got carried away and were ignorant of the huge availablity of these in the States.

Imperial themselves have re-issued these at various times over many years. Many other companies have made slight variations.

Here is a recently sold 8 sided one on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6271681468

Draw your own conclusions
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Bernard C on April 28, 2006, 10:39:08 PM
Quote from: "aurora4u"
... I changed my profile to include where i'm from ( Bernard  :lol: )

Thanks.   New members know what country they are in and where they acquire their glass, so it is not immediately obvious that it should be included in their profile.   It is useful information, as it indicates likely possibilities when attributing glass.    Unfortunately Canada is the most difficult in this respect, as I do not know whether, in respect of imported glass, your country should be regarded as British Empire / Commonwealth, or a close neighbour of the USA, or both.   I suspect the last of these, with added input from France.

If you wish to find Canada-related topics here, don't forget to search on "Lorne".

Bernard C.  8)
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: chuggy on April 29, 2006, 06:28:47 AM
At the time when we auctioned the pair we had, they were understood to be original 8 sided and came from the estate of an old lady who had lived in Detroit for many years as her husband worked for a large motor company. As I recall they were bought by a collector in Nebraska over the phone who was thrilled with them. The price quoted was not intended as a valuation merely an indicative matter of historical record (I think that cover me before Peter gives me a slap), hehehe!
Paul
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 29, 2006, 06:52:43 AM
I do appreciate all the info you guys have provided .

 So what i gather is ....... you do not exactly know where in the USA this comes from .... or whether this might have been a mold brought in from another country ? or that that the current value might be anywhere from 9.99 (on ebay ) because they are very available ...........right to a possible 15oo canadian ...... so ............ ummmmmm am i right back to where i started?......the unknown ?

Thx Brenda
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 29, 2006, 06:55:59 AM
CANADA .......... IS WHAT IT IS ........ not part of anything as much as i'm concerned .....is what it is .........as am I

Brenda
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 29, 2006, 06:57:43 AM
ps .......... WHATS LORNE?
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Della on April 29, 2006, 07:01:39 AM
It is better to receive lots of opinions and have things viewed from all angles than to have none at all.  8)  :wink:

I am not sure if you have a photo of your candlesticks, but I think that it would help.
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 29, 2006, 07:22:38 AM
Della .... through one of the posts had a link ...... it was the same as what i have ............ chit ,,,,,,,,,,, oops sorry peter or paul or dang now im confused  :roll:


Sorry ,,,,,i did see a link to a pick the same as i have i double and then triple checed to make sure they were possibly original .........but heck ..... i started confused now i'm even more so ....... ?????

Brenda
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 29, 2006, 07:24:39 AM
found it ...the reply from ED ..... ie: hotglass ......his link to e-bay was the same as i have


Brenda
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 29, 2006, 07:26:40 AM
:( ......... lost and confused !
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 29, 2006, 07:33:59 AM
Sheesh  Ed your difficult

Unfortunately Canada is the most difficult in this respect, as I do not know whether, in respect of imported glass, your country should be regarded as British Empire / Commonwealth, or a close neighbour of the USA, or both. I suspect the last of these, with added input from France.
Quote
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: glasswizard on April 29, 2006, 10:20:34 AM
I have been following this with some interest. When it comes to glass Canada and the US are very much intertwined. Many EAPG patterns made in America can also be atributed to Canadian glass works which would lead one to suspect an interchange of molds.
As far as the crucifix candlesticks, the early years when Boston and Sandwich glass and the New England glass companies were operating can be very confusing. We are talking here about 1850-1860 era. Different bases, candle cups etc. were used in different combinations causing attribution very difficult.
You state with certainty that yours are Imperial glass. Imperial glass operated in Bellaire, Ohio from1901 till 1984. Of course pictures as they say are worth a thousand words. Terry
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: aurora4u on April 30, 2006, 06:00:45 AM
Hi Terry ....  these candlesticks were recently give to me .. the info I have is what the person who gave them to me found in a book somewhere. ..... the only for real info i have is that they were given to my grandparents as a wedding gift.  

they do have an 8  sided base, i belive from what info was provided to me on here that that are original.

Hotglass provided a pic via link to what appears to be the same as what I have.

so ...... Im still in the same boat , where are they from ? .. USA what part ? Approx value ?  Are so many available they arnt worth much ? . I'm not intending to sell ...... but if I passed them on will my kids see more value from them ?

 One thing i did notice about my pair was .... from the mold casting there are several lines .  (Flaws)..... marks from ??? ...... my experience with ceramics .... tells me this was an old mold very ..... well used mold.


Thanx again for all the input and info

Brenda
Title: Imperial candlesticks
Post by: Tony on May 14, 2006, 07:00:55 PM
Quote from: "Hotglass"
I think you guys are (unintentionally) misleading the lady with those high valuations.
   
The scarcity, demand and availablity of the Carnival version is vastly different to the clear.

Chuggy, yours may have been original Sandwich ones which would explain their price. Either that or your bidders got carried away and were ignorant of the huge availablity of these in the States.

Imperial themselves have re-issued these at various times over many years. Many other companies have made slight variations.

Here is a recently sold 8 sided one on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6271681468

Draw your own conclusions


Hello,
Are you indicating that this particular candlestick is a repro by Imperial or a third party.    Tony.
Title: crucifix candlesticks
Post by: Frank on May 14, 2006, 07:16:55 PM
Tony, edited your message, you cannot install code or use Javascript nor html. The code tag is to allow examples of BBCODE to show in the post. When you quote a message, your message should be after the closing quote tag. Click edit on your post to see how it looks now.

As to Lorne perhaps Bernard can elaborate?

All I can see is - The Marquis of Lorne Pattern: A Canadian Connection in English Pressed Glass. (Marquis & Marchioness creamer, 5 3/4". Beautifully executed in design detail, this creamer portrays a likeness of both the Marquis & the Marchioness of Lorne on opposite sides of the pitcher. The Marchioness was Louise, the daughter of Queen Victoria. Her husband, the Marquis of Lorne, became the Governor General of Canada in 1878. This pitcher commemorates the arrival of the royal couple in Nova Scotia on November 25, 1878. It was made by Greener Glass Co. in England)