Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Resolved Paperweight Queries => Topic started by: cfosterk on October 14, 2006, 03:17:37 PM
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I know I shouldn't have, but this was pretty and a great deal of effort went into making this weight. If only it didn't bear the dropped PY cane and the actual manufacturer had had the confidence to sign the piece!!
The faceting is cracking, the basket set up great, although the butterfly is a little on the cruder side - but still lovely!!!
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l139/cfosterk/DSCF0105.jpg
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The facetting seems to have been a recent innovation and probably applied to unsold stock after the group involved ducked out of sight during the police investigation. A batch of about a dozen were recorded unfaceted and then faceted a few weeks later, only a few years ago. This one could be from that batch or another. It is of course possible that they are in production again and reusing the Type 1 fake cane. With the value of the type 1 fakes exceeding the street price when they first came on the market - certainly their is now a good incentive to fake the fakes :lol:
The glassworks where the first type of fakes were produced has been closed a few years ago but the network of dealers involved are still active.
It is a pit that the makers do not come forward... I wonder what the collectors would make of it if they did? Perhaps like Tom Keaton they would become all the more famous and multiply their incomes from their own work? One problem is that under Scottish Law they committed an act of forgery and the penalty is severe. However, the Perth police are more interested in getting a case against the dealers than the makers and a deal could in all probability be struck.
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I realise that this is an open public forum. However, I have to say that your latest posting intrigued me and whetted my appetite for more information!!!
Perhaps i'm reading too much into "The glassworks where the first type of fakes were produced has been closed a few years ago" - this implies that there is great deal of information available about the site, even who was involved. Can this be the case? The paperweight community in Scotland is surely quite small and someone must know exactly whats gone on!!!
and then "the network of dealers involved are still active" - this suggests that you might even know who was involved. Or at least have your suspicions!!! I am not trying to provoke you into a potentially libellous action I hasten to say!!!!
Call me naive but I would gladly have paid more than the £50-odd I paid for the butterfly had its manufacturer declared themselves and had the courage to identify their own work! I'm a sucker for millefiori and competent lampwork!!!! When someone has such a degree of talent, it should be admired and acknowledged.
It is honourable to follow in the footsteps of the Ysarts, who themselves developed and re-invented the skills of the great French glasshouses of the C19. What is clearly unforgivable is the blatant attempt to mislead and defraud innocent third parties.
So endeth the rant of an innocent!!! You can probably gather than I haven't been burnt by the fraudsters thanks to the great stuff thats on this and other sites!!!!
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I live in hope that one day someone will decide to speak out. My belief is that it would bring more benefits to the whole Scottish paperweight industry as scandalous publicity is the best sort. Paul Ysart has kept his crown but there are other who could be up there with him. A good round of press exposure would give a much needed boost to a struggling industry.
One or two names do get thrown around from time to time but those could just be red-herrings, there were more involved than most people realise. But it will take a whistleblower from the inside to reopen the casefiles.
Too many closures, too many unsung heroes. Scotland has many world leading glass artists and it would be sad for that lead to slowly die out. There is a need for an industry figurehead, another Colin Terris. Possibly the Northlands project http://www.northlandsglass.com/ but after ten years, still not widely known and perhaps more concerned with the craft than the region. (Which is not a criticism as it does a good job).
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I believe this Butterfly weight is the one shown in my web page of PY fakes as "Butterfly 03". The dark ground in my photo was the result of taking the image over a black folder cover. The shape, setting and other features of the lampwork and the sig cane seem to match - although a straight top-donw view would be needed to confirm.
I took photos of 13 fake py weights in Dec 2002 in a shop in Perth. All were unfaceted. Shortly after, they were all bought by another Scottish dealer who offered them on eBay. Some appeared with faceting as repair work to chips and bruises.
If I am right about it being one I saw in 2002, then at £50-odd, it seems that somebody has made a loss as the original sales in 2003 made more that (if my memory is correct).
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Kevin that seems to make some sense - the ebayer I bought this from suggested they had paid over £100.
I noticed the remarkable similarities last night when I checked your excellent (i mean it!!) site last night. The kink in the body, the same wings etc.
The faceting adds a little interest to the weight.
I would not ordinarily buy a fake paperweight - but I'm adding to Dads one of everything!! My regret was not buying a J weight copy/fake from Terry Johnson (I think??) when he stood at a fair in Uxbridge when I was down working in London. It was a triple insect weight - again I think this might be on your site!!
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There are no triple insect weights in my web pages - yet!
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triple insect t6hat I've seen is on ysart glass pages as a PY fake....
Fake010!!!
I have three JD triple insects on a variety of grounds - they're fantastic, and were great value....
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I have no idea who made the fakes, but Paul Ysart trained his many apprentices by telling them "Copy this." I do not find it surprising that a number of people out there could mimic Paul's work.
I agree that these weights with the "fake PY cane" are often good value - but prices can be outrageous. A signed flower with a fake cane went for around £400 at an auction I attended recently! Regards, Alan.
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A signed flower with a fake cane went for around £400 at an auction I attended recently!
Was it attributed as a fake or as possibly genuine? If the former, then I am even more staggered than I usually am.
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Hi Kevin
I have checked, and the fake item was catalogued as "Paul Ysart style paperweight" with an Estimate of £100 to £120. A genuine Paul Ysart was catalogued as "Ysart Flower Bud paperweight" with an Estimate of £220 to £280. Sounds fair enough to me. And the fake went for a little more than I thought: some £450 plus commission. The real one sold for £360 plus commission. So feel free to be staggered! Regards, Alan.
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I'm not just staggered. I now believe without reservation that the world is going more carzy than ever :roll:
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Kevin
the world is going more carzy
Shouldn't that be "going down the carzy" !
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Obviously no point anyone making waits in their own name anymore! Much better to make a fake of something. Of course the rarest fake weights are the VY signed ones (Vincent Ysart) I suppose they will fetch over a thousand now. (http://www.debook.com/gifs/Mailflush.gif)
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Don't forget that people often don't believe the auction catalogues. They may have not realised that there are fakes out there, and just thought that the auction house didn't know what it had - this is more common than auction houses knowing after all.
If the vendor doesn;t know what they have got, then unless it is a specialist auction, the likelihood is that it will be mis-catalogued.
So perhaps they thought it right, and bid accordingly.
And didn't like the real one as much!
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The fakes are unmistakeable and very well documented the auction house just prefers not to use the word fake in a listing.
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Of course the rarest fake weights are the VY signed ones (Vincent Ysart) I suppose they will fetch over a thousand now.
I predict a glut frank...
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:twisted:
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Hi Frank.
By "rarest fake weights are the VY signed ones (Vincent Ysart)" do you mean a signature cane inclusion? Any pictures of one?
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Fortunately in this case it was a joke Andrew. So no pictures are available, perhaps the joke should be removed before it gives someone the idea.
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oooops. :o