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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on April 01, 2012, 07:03:28 PM

Title: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 01, 2012, 07:03:28 PM
Ironic really that whilst searching for a reference on something else,  I had been rereading a thread in the cafe on the de-merits of buying damaged glass  ::)  I was never going to not buy this one  ;D It has everything I love (apart from no chips lol)
I love the fact that the rigaree trails are not perfectly laid out - they are different but not systematically applied in a 1,2,1,2 type order, rather it looks like they decided to see how they all looked in a kind of 'trial' way  ;D, it has prunts, and it has an amazing drippy rim applied to the crackle glass.
link here
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19TH-CENTURY-PONTILLED-BLOWN-CRACKLE-GLASS-VASE-APPLIED-RIGAREES-PRUNTS-/370598662706?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item564966d232
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: glassobsessed on April 02, 2012, 08:06:33 AM
Wow, I agree with the seller "A riot of the glassmakers art". ;D

The seller's ebay name makes my silly ebay name sound almost sensible.  :o

John
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 02, 2012, 08:50:21 AM
 ;D  I tried to ignore it
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: TxSilver on April 02, 2012, 02:15:33 PM
It has a Spanish look to it. I've seen this vase before, but nothing is coming to mind.
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 02, 2012, 02:30:52 PM
ooh Anita , how weird is that, I thought so too as soon as I saw it :o  thanks  :) 
I've been trying to find my references, bookmarked somewhere  ::) from when I was looking at your maybe Clichy vase and my overshot pieces and where I did find examples of Spanish  glass..but I can't find them at the mo.  I wonder if something similar was on Wordpress or in one of the museum collections?  I might try those links and trawl through.
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: Greg. on April 02, 2012, 02:42:51 PM
Slightly different form, however, the rigaree especially around the top of the vase reminded me of the one you posted.  This one does also have the addition of a rigaree salamander!

http://atlantaantiquegallery.com/i-976379-bohemian-art-glass-vase.html

Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 02, 2012, 02:54:27 PM
Thanks Greg  :) - there are many similar online, French, English and Bohemian I have found so far, but none with the crackle overshot and the rim and the trailing unfortunately.
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 03, 2012, 05:45:56 PM
it's a minefield out there   :( I've not seen this vase, but I have seen a vaguely similar vase  attributed variously to Webb's, Harrach and Boston and Sandwich  :o - it's the same piece on each of the three different sites  ::)
I'm coming down on the side of Bohemian and possibly Harrach  :-\ They seem to have done a similar shape as the body of the vase, the wishbone feet and the way they are applied are a possible (I can't find anything the same on English glass or French glass) and the blue colour glass fits.
However I've not found a similar crackle/overshot or a rim that is definitely the same or the same type of thing.
The only piece I can find a similar rim on is an Auguste Jean vase, which I am pretty sure mine is not as nothing else about my vase fits.  Anyone have any ideas who else may have done this same type of rim?  I can find lots that are zig zag rim trails like the one Greg posted above,but none that are this kind of applied drip with the zig zag top as part of it.
thanks for any ideas  :)
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 03, 2012, 06:05:47 PM
I would go for Bohemian, maybe Harrach. That blue pops up on a lot of things. Shame it has no uranium.
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 04, 2012, 02:39:04 PM
Well, it has arrived, and it is already my best piece of glass ever!  It is huge, weighs about 3 1/2lb (1.6KG) 9 1/2" tall (24cm) by 6 1/2" wide.
I have no idea what's in it Christine but under the blacklight the blue glows the brightest yellow you've ever seen  :o
More pics, just because it deserves it  ;D
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 04, 2012, 03:01:17 PM
Poor thing needs tlc with a soft toothbrush and lots of washing up liquid. Bright yellow  ??? I'll go and point my UV light at some blue stuff
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 04, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Unbelievably bright yellow - in a dark room it looks like a yellow and clear vase.  All the trails glow bright yellow as well  :-\
The photographs make it look worse than it really is in terms of needing a clean - in reality it looks fine but  I shall try it with bicarbonate of soda I think. 
It's so beautiful, I'm thrilled with it.
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 04, 2012, 09:17:56 PM
pic of yellow glow - my camera hasn't picked it up very well but it really is amazing in a completely dark room, it turns into a bright yellow and clear vase.  The bluey colour in the pic is the purple tube reflecting off the clear crackle glass bits.
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 05, 2012, 06:13:14 AM
Looks like manganese to me.
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 05, 2012, 07:23:25 AM
I've been looking it up to try and work out what it is.    I can't see anywhere that manganese produces blue though.  It says here (see link) that copper oxide produces turquoise.  Would that glow yellow under UV light?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_coloring_and_color_marking
I had hoped it might help date it to 'before....'
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 05, 2012, 11:46:57 AM
Manganese doesn't produce blue but it was often routinely used in coloured glass whether it was needed or not.
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 06, 2012, 05:19:33 PM
Ok, thank you  :)
I've found this one (see link)- admittedly only vague similarities, but is this really Auguste Jean?  I know it was a Christie's auction  :-[ but I'm just wondering?
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4474070
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 06, 2012, 06:26:11 PM
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ajean
this is another one with this applied rim in the same way.  I need to find this kind of rim on a Bohemian vase  ;D as opposed to a trailed applied zigzag.
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 06, 2012, 10:30:52 PM
There are a number of vases with drip rims and similarly applied feet in Truitt's Bohemian Glass 1880-1940 under Harrach. But none with the same sticky up applied serrated edge rim.  However, one in particular is a similar shape to mine though - no feet applied but has a serrated sticking up rim in the same glass as the body of the vase (i.e no drip applied rim) The whole body of the vase is the same shape as mine but larger and not crackle (page 64 no 5)
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 16, 2012, 04:30:22 PM
Is there any reason why my vase might not be Italian?

What prompts my query is that I've just been looking at some Empoli glass and there is one vase in Verde which has applied trails and also a 'crown' in a similar vein to my vase.  The crown is not applied, it's all part of the green body of the vase and it's tooled so not made in the same way, but the effect is the same.... it's kind of like an 'homage' to an older piece.
So I was just wondering whether mine might be Venetian and if there was anything about it that would preclude it being so?

See third row down second from left
http://www.vmglasshouse.com/empoli-verde.htm
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: TxSilver on April 16, 2012, 08:33:21 PM
Your vase is a bit fussy for Empoli, but that doesn't mean it isn't from somewhere else in Italy. I keep hoping I will run across the place where I've seen your vase before. It still looks to have a Spanish spirit to me. Spanish style glass was made abundantly both in Italy and Bohemia. The suggestion of Harrach seems closest to home to me. The answer is out there in a reference site. We just have to find it.
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on April 16, 2012, 09:08:48 PM
Hi Anita, I agree about the Empoli, I was just thinking that perhaps the Empoli verde piece was kind of 'in the style of' 19th c Venetian glass maybe, therefore it might indicate that my vase could be 19thc Venetian maybe, or perhaps something like Altare.  However, once I'd posted I remembered searching for  another vase a while ago and I wasn't able to find a Venetian piece with applied 'feet' in this kind of style or the pincered petal feet type style.
 
So I'm back to where I was -  maybe Harrach, but I'm with you in that it still feels Spanish   :) 
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on May 15, 2012, 09:20:11 AM
I have a definite possible maker for this vase - Les Frères Boutigny, Paris 1880-1890.  Reference: The Art of French Glass 1860-1914, Janine Bloch-Dermant, page 14 plate 6.

The vase shown is the same shape as mine also overshot crackle. She calls it crackle but has an asterisk next to it along with a description of overshot glass and the body of the vase looks exactly like mine so I believe it was created via the overshot process as mine was.

Height of that vase is 23cm (mine is 24cm with the vertical pulled up rim), and it looks as wide and as big as mine, i.e. proportionately it looks similar.  The rim is the very deep drip rim in blue but instead of having the upstanding pulled vertical zig zag it has an applied rigaree in the same blue around the rim.  The feet are three pulled blue feet kind of wishbone type but not exactly, pulled with a tool to create the foot.  The feet do not go over and round the whole base as mine do, but are just three applied singularly. 
However, despite these differences, I am 99.99% convinced mine is from the same source.

According to the book Les Frères Boutigny were active mostly in Paris between 1880-1890 and  'Collectors of the old glass of Bohemia and agents for that nation's modern crystal, they tried to imitate the antique work, even to the perfection of the process of double-layering (casing) glass in different colours. ..... Often the Boutignys' glass is crackled, and the crackled vase now in the  Conservatoire des Arts et Metiers displays a quality of material a strength of form all but equal to the audacious work of Auguste Jean (plate 6)'.

It is of course possible, that my vase is one of the 'antique work' they tried to imitate and the implication in the sentence above is that the antique work they imitated was Bohemian, but my instinct says that it is from the same source as the vase pictured plate 6 and is by Les Frères Boutigny.

m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: Ivo on May 15, 2012, 09:55:02 AM
Completely missed this discussion otherwise I would have thrown in "French" in an early stage. It is obvious fin de siècle French, and there are several makers who used the same style - Sèvres and August Jean being the best know of the school of wild dripping appliques. Congrats on having found an entirely believable attribution for this quite stunning piece of French Nouveau.
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on May 15, 2012, 10:56:19 AM
Thank you Ivo  :D
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 15, 2012, 03:53:03 PM
Congratulations from me too, this has been a lot of detailed and painstaking work... I just hope you don't get your teeth stuck into me someday with the same sort of tenacity and ferocity!  :-*
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on May 15, 2012, 04:47:14 PM
 :-*  ;D it was slightly accidental to be honest.  I ordered the book because it was cheap and I wanted to check out my patchy bubbly vase.  I started leafing through the book and there it was  :o
m
Title: Re: 19thC Overshot glass vase applied turquoise rigaree,trails,prunts & drip rim
Post by: flying free on October 30, 2012, 09:01:27 PM
I saw a couple of pieces of Spanish overshot glass at the V& A that I'd only seen in my books in black and white pictures.  What was surprising to me was that the glass is actually very yellow,  not at all clear.   It's taken me ages to find them on the net  but this is one of them, a jug
http://www.vandaimages.com/results.asp?image=2006BG5208-01&itemw=2&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=15