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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Animals & Figurines => Topic started by: flying free on April 03, 2011, 12:49:27 PM

Title: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 03, 2011, 12:49:27 PM
This has no label and probably is of no use to anyone but me unfortunately.  However, I've decided to do a bit of research before buying what should be my one glass fish for my collection  ;D
So I bought this in the name of research, because it was cheap, because it has the foil and because it has very curious eyes.   It's quite pretty but not as colourful or intricate as I would eventually like to have.  And there I've stuck.  Is it even Murano do we think?
I've put as close up photos as I can get of the eyes.  They seem to be like pale yellow sticks of hollow pasta tubes lined with red glass but then a clear centre - they seem to have been shoved into the glass side of the fish head.The silver and gold appears to be foil. I thought the fins were clear, but as I was taking photos I realised they are completely covered in gold foil as well.  I'll add another picture of that later.  It's looking better than it was when I first saw it now I describe it :-\
Any help much appreciated.
many thanks  - additional pic on black now added and also, it has a sharp bit underneath so I think it may have originally been on a glass stand that got broken perhaps.  Measurements - 7"tall (18cm) x 7 1/2" long (19cm)
M
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: rosieposie on April 03, 2011, 02:57:20 PM
Hi M, I really think it is worth looking at The Great Glass Library, on this page, as they are very like your beautiful fish>

http://www.great-glass.co.uk/library/lib4ab.htm

He looks very like the Cenedese one 5865....see what you think!!
Rosie.
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 03, 2011, 03:17:41 PM
and 6918 as well... yes - bingo!! thank you Rosie - I'm impressed with myself for choosing him now :-[
I'll have another search around now I have a possible name.
Many thanks!
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: johnphilip on April 03, 2011, 04:09:17 PM
Just like many of the fish in the aquarium blocks by Cenedese .
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 03, 2011, 04:20:02 PM
well that's very exciting, thanks JP   :rah:- perhaps I do have my one fish after all (until one in a more contemporary style  comes along  ;D )
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: Max on April 03, 2011, 04:29:37 PM
Uhh....   all those similar fish on the Great Glass site say "possibly Cenedese" or "Cenedese style" not that they are definitively Cenedese.  Unless anyone has any more information?  :-\



Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 03, 2011, 05:04:03 PM
It's ok Max, I am quite excited but only a little ;D  I am aware they are only 'possibles' and subsequent searches have not thrown up anything more definitive. 
I'll let you know if I do come across anything more definitive   ;)
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 04, 2011, 01:46:57 PM
circumstantial information so far:
Modernist glass have a paperweight on the site that is attributed to Riccardo Licata for Cenedese 1950's.  The fish in that weight appears to have similar eyes and mouth to mine.  They state that the fish should have a yellow surround to the eyes (mine does) and that the fins should be filigree.  I don't know what that means.  I thought filigree was delicate strands of gold or silver :-\ .  Mine has gold leaf in the fins but not what I would call filigree.  Also my fish eyes have a red lining to the yellow surround which glows v. brightly under UV light.  I have a Bohemian vase with opaque red splotches in and some of those glow brightly like that (I've just tested it) I'm not for one moment suggesting it is Bohemian btw, just mentioning this odd phenomena because my fish eyes are curious.  I can't see whether any of the fish I have looked at that look similar to mine, whether they are or aren't Cenedese is questionable, actually have this red lining inside the yellow eyes.  They all look as though they have a  black interior to me including the ones in this paperweight.
I have found labelled Cenedese aquariums.  All of the fish in them seem to have a filigrano type fins or are made of strands of colour, but there was one fish in a complicated aquarium that appears to have clear fins with possibly silver or gold leaf in them.
I haven't found anything that has totally convinced me.  Does anyone have any definite Cenedese glass with fish in at all please? 

Something else curious about the eyes, I just assumed it would be two pieces of cut off cane, one stuck in one side and one the other.  I n fact it is one piece of cane pushed right through.
any further thoughts very much appreciated.  p.s. I've come across some amazing contemoprary style fish on the way - gorgeous.
thanks
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: TxSilver on April 04, 2011, 02:09:20 PM
m, the filigree is referring to the small canes that make the stripes. It can also be zanfirico. In this case it just means that the tail and fins have the white or color glass stripes. This refers to the fish that are in the blocks and not to the free-standing ones. Most of the Cenedese free-standing fish I've seen don't have the filigree fins. For example, the fish of Da Ros are sleek on the outside.

There is a fish like yours on GoAntiques attributed to Cenedese, but it doesn't have a label. I hope we can find one with a label so you'll know for sure. When I see "possibly" with an attribution, I tranlate it into "I don't know." I need at least a "probably" to start feeling comfortable.
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: rosieposie on April 04, 2011, 02:13:23 PM
Hmmm...this is getting more and more interesting!!  There is one on the Great Glass site that says 'probably' Anita.....all the others say possibly!!
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 04, 2011, 02:15:24 PM
me too Anita  :) and even a probably without any references/reasoning to substantiate the 'probably' isn't enough to definitely id something (part of my previous life was research, so I'm always looking for definites  ;D)
 I'll take a look at goantiques.  thanks p.s. Rosie and I have cross posted and I was about to refer to the 'possibly' 'probably' on Great Glass but deleted it  :)
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: rosieposie on April 04, 2011, 10:03:36 PM
I just found this one on Antique Helper, and it has a very similar eye form to your fish....it might be worth having a look m.
Rosie.
http://www.antiquehelper.com/item/326337
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 04, 2011, 10:27:21 PM
thanks Rosie, I hadn't come across that one. yes there are similarities and it's quite early isn't it? I'll have to investigate further.    I've looked at a few aquariums on Dan Ripley etc, which are listed as Barbini Cenedese and there are similarities with a lot of those fish.  The mouth, the eyes, the stripes, the use of gold/silver foil in the body and some of the 'floaty' fin shapes although those are filigrano rather than clear with foil as mine are.  This one looks very similar
http://antiquehelper.rfcsystems.com/Full/305/73305_view%2002_02.jpg
I think my fish is probably a 'good' one is all I have so far though.  I'll go take a look round at CVM Murano and see what I can find.  thanks again  :)
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on April 05, 2011, 09:17:58 AM
Anita, that fish was most definitely made by the same hand as mine.  I have emailed the dealer to ask if it is labelled.  I'm not sure whether they will reply but hopefully they will.  I'll post if so.  Thanks again for your help.
see link here, 3rd pic down.
http://www.goantiques.com/search/search_results.jsp?newSearch=yes&channel=&category=Glass&keywords=cenedese+fish&itemType=
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on November 11, 2012, 10:36:26 PM
I think this fish is the same maker as mine and has a label.  I have looked through the Murano labels file but can't see the label there.
It may be  generic but is it recognised at all and could it give an indication of time period of manufacture maybe?
Thank you for any help.
m :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MURANO-FISH-/181006561488?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=%2FXxrH3bw6WysCQlmfjzxeC5%2F%2FbU%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: langhaugh on November 12, 2012, 05:19:53 AM
This the great mystery generic label. It turns up frequently and yet I've never seen it linked to any company. The label seems to from late 50's /early 60's to late 70's/early 80's. I'd be surprised if it's not in the label library.

David

Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on November 12, 2012, 08:36:24 AM
Thanks David  :)
There is one a similar shape in the label library, but not the same wording as I recall.
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: langhaugh on November 12, 2012, 11:39:13 PM
Hi, File #99 at the bottom of page 5 looks pretty much the same, as far as I can make out.

David
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on November 12, 2012, 11:46:55 PM
that's the one I found  :) 
And I'm probably splitting hairs here, and it is the same shape, but to me the colour of the label is different gold v red background, the wording is different and I think the font is slightly different  :-\

I'm only stating the differences, because until one knows for sure, it's difficult to know whether the differences between them are important or not important if you see what I mean? 
I guess if they are 'stick it on' generic labels then it may never lead to a maker but I suppose it's one more piece of the puzzle  :-\
m
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: langhaugh on November 13, 2012, 05:18:34 AM
The only difference I see is one label says "Handmade made in Murano" and the other says "Handmade in Murano."  I think you're splitting hairs. If the labels do represent two different companies, your task has just got that much more difficult. There's another variant at File 106.

David
Title: Re: largish green striped glass fish with gold and silver foil - Murano?
Post by: flying free on June 11, 2019, 10:37:22 PM
This fish according to the sales information, is documented to Cenedese:
https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/decorative-objects/sculptures/animal-sculptures/cenedese-murano-orange-silver-gold-leaf-fins-italian-art-glass-fish-sculpture/id-f_11162371/
and is listed as Creator: Cenedese (workshop/studio)

The fish is remarkably similar to my fish.  What is most interesting and something I have found on another piece as well, is that my fish has a rough part under the mouth between the two fins.  I thought/wondered if it was where the pontil rod was removed (and it might be), but having seen this fish attached to glass 'stands' in a similar position on the fish, I'm now wondering if mine was originally attached to a 'stand' of some sort?

m