Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: MHJ02 on September 07, 2011, 01:24:35 PM

Title: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: MHJ02 on September 07, 2011, 01:24:35 PM

Hello Frank

Many years ago I sent you a picture of a pink striped bowl, identified and catalogue by you as shape BI.   About 4/5 years ago, I bought a yellow striped bowl which I think is possibly shape PH.   Today I took delivery of another striped bowl, this time green/white striped  thinking is may also be a PH, but it's not.   Shape is different. I'm looking at all 3 bowls on my desk and I'm wondering whether it is in fact shape NI

This is the second time I've typed this message - the pictures were too large for the the e/mail :huh:

Is there anyway I can send these photos to someone who will be able to do what is necessary to display them to start a discussion.
Many thanks
Mary

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: MHJ02 on September 07, 2011, 01:25:42 PM

Not PH - FH

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: KevinH on September 07, 2011, 03:27:06 PM

Mary, I am not sure why your photos would be too large for an email, but try sending them to me and I will "do the necessary" if I can.

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: MHJ02 on September 07, 2011, 05:38:36 PM

Hi Kevin

Many thanks

I've sent you an e/mail with the various photos of the 3 bowls from different but hopefully corresponding angles.   I appreciate it is really difficult to state categorically these 3 bowls are all different shapes, but from what I've seen of the shapes in the Ysart Glass book and on the webpage there is a query with identifying shape NI as it is so similar to FH.   I'm not saying my green/white striped bowl is NI which is why I'd like opinions from others.

The pink striped bowl has been identified as shape BI and looks to be correctly identified by Frank.   I have always (probably incorrectly) assumed the yellow striped bowl is shape FH, the shape of the bowl is definitely different to the other 2.

Whatever the final thoughts are, I just think I'm extremely lucky to own 3 striped bowls.

Mary

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: Frank on September 08, 2011, 11:22:58 AM

These can be puzzling, look forward to seeing pics.

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: MHJ02 on September 08, 2011, 01:21:07 PM

Hi Frank

I've sent you an e/mail with some photos.
Mary

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: KevinH on September 08, 2011, 02:59:04 PM

Mary's Green Bowl ...

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: KevinH on September 08, 2011, 03:00:35 PM

Mary's Amber & Purple Bowls ...

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: Frank on September 08, 2011, 04:46:36 PM

Green and pink are both BI. Quite a normal amount of shape variation.

But the yellow/amber... it is probably another variant of BI... may just possibly a variant of WC but that seems less likely as while the shape varies quite a lot I have not seen it spread wide like this.

The other shapes you mention are shaped feet, not applied.

So I would say 3 times BI.

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: MHJ02 on September 08, 2011, 04:58:25 PM

The applied feet on the green and amber bowls are similar, but the pink foot is completely different - splayed and much wider.   I will take more pictures of the applied feet for you to see the difference.   The amber bowl is really different in shape to the other two.
   

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: KevinH on September 08, 2011, 05:46:01 PM

For a better comparison, here's a compilation shot from Mary's original of all three on a table. The Amber bowl was to the rear of the other two so there will be some element of apparent size difference. But for shapes, it should be ok.

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: Frank on September 08, 2011, 08:32:29 PM

I don't think the foot difference matters that much. But the Yellow really is so fundamentally a different shape that I guess it is probably non-standard. All the variants in the catalogue that differ a lot were labelled examples, so I guess we just have to wait for a labelled match to the yellow and until then assume it is a special or even a one off. There are a few designs that did see radical change in form between pre and post war. I guess Paul just refined his taste. Particularly RA http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Page02vary.htm

e.g. http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Page04vary.htm
RC has substantial foot and proportion variations even pre-war and WC varies from almost hideous to the one (in centre) that I still consider to be the most aesthetically perfect piece of Monart I ever owned or saw.

BB variants are wide http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Page03vary.htm

More variants

http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Page06vary.htm

http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Page08vary.htm

http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Page09vary.htm

More on the site, variants are linked from each catalogue page. All of the first page are now only on Scotlands Glass with multiple examples viewable together on each detail page.

http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=260&Itemid=6

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: nigel benson on September 09, 2011, 01:37:44 PM

Hello Mary,

How is the base of the green and white lattice bowl finished?

Nigel

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl more pictures
Post by: MHJ02 on September 11, 2011, 02:25:24 PM

Hi Nigel

Here are 3 pictures of the feet of each of the bowls.   The pink  bowl is splayed out, whereas both the green/white (which has a clear foot) and the amber are what I call stubby.   Have a look and see what you think.

Regards
Mary

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: Frank on September 11, 2011, 02:53:49 PM

Well noticed Nigel, I guess you are going to say the green one is Nazeing or...

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: MHJ02 on September 11, 2011, 03:14:04 PM

Frank,

I don't think it's Nazeing, the foot is exactly the same as the amber bowl.  The shape of the bowl is exactly the same as the BI pink striped.    Everything about the green cobweb bowl screams Monart to me down to the colour.   I also have another footed vase with the same shape foot. 
Mary

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: nigel benson on September 11, 2011, 09:44:59 PM

Thanks Frank.........but take a look here http://www.20thcentury-glass.org.uk/id62.html (http://www.20thcentury-glass.org.uk/id62.html). You'll probably notice something in the first photo.

Sorry Mary, but everything about it screams Nazeing, the way the colour is laid in the finish to the pontil, etc., etc.

Nigel

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: Frank on September 11, 2011, 10:08:21 PM

Mary I agree with Nigel and had only been looking at shapes although I had been startled by the green/white and just did not think about that until Nigel made his remark. The close-up of the foot was completely not Ysart. I know that they did occasionally leave the foot undusted but a Monart foot never had that look. On the plus side one of the better pieces of Nazeing.

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: MHJ02 on September 12, 2011, 06:57:43 AM

That's a wrap then, isn't it.   So it begs the question now being Nazeing, is 1930's Nazeing worth anything?   I shall keep it as I think it's very attractive.     

As for the amber bowl, let's hope someone comes along with a label otherwise we will never know if it is a special or whether new shapes were made and not included in the pattern book.  Intriguing thought!!

Mary

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: Frank on September 12, 2011, 10:19:45 AM

As it is such a good one it would probably fetch a similar price to a Monart one, maybe a bit less...

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: nigel benson on September 12, 2011, 12:40:56 PM

You're in good company though Mary. A certain chap who wrote a bit of an Ysart book bought a blue and white lattice Nazeing vase under the same misapprehension  ;) (No folks, not Frank........).

Nigel :)

PS. I've just looked and failed to find an emoticom with a big wooden spoon ::)

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: Frank on September 12, 2011, 01:33:24 PM

Quote from: nigel on September 12, 2011, 12:40:56 PM

... who wrote a bit of an Ysart book...  ;) (No folks, not Frank........).

Gosh puzzles on a Monday afternoon... grateful that it is an easy one...

Title: Re: Monart Glass Bowl shapes BI; PH; and NI question probably for Frank
Post by: millarart on September 28, 2011, 08:56:35 PM

i too am certain it the green one is nazeing, i now someone who has a vase to match the bowl