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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: 2*pleese*u on December 26, 2010, 04:19:34 PM

Title: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on December 26, 2010, 04:19:34 PM
My name is Michael and I came across a clear crystal head sculpture on two pedistaled feet etched with the word Orrefors but I see no production number or artist code. Is it possible that Orrefors only signed the company name but did not include a production number on any of the art glass made or did all Products made have a Production code included?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: langhaugh on December 26, 2010, 04:42:16 PM
Hi, Michael:

Some Orrefors pieces are marked only "Orrefors" or even "Of."  In my limited experience, such pieces tend to be pieces produced in great numbers or are smaller, not particularly significant pieces. I'm surprised that a head would carry only an Orrefors, as that's likely to be a better piece, although I don't associate Orrefors with heads, more Kosta/Boda. I'd love to see a photograph, as I'm sure would others, perhaps with the  mountains of Colorado in the background.


David
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on December 26, 2010, 05:09:48 PM
Dear David, That information is helpful, Thanks. I do not actually have the sculpture, It is for sale somewhere and am debating investing in it if it is still there after I find out more general information about signatures. I have done a completed and active search on E-Bay and did not see anything like it and I have thoroughly scoured the web for a similar piece. I saw no text or pictures of anything close to what I had seen. I think that if it were common, I would have been able to pull up an image or info on it? I may gamble and go pick it up today, based on any new information I receive on it here. worth the gamble? The seller has it marked 165.00?  Bertil Vallien may have been the designer, I am not positive I am not sure if Bertil signed all the items made also. the item stands about 3-3-1/2' tall, rests on two squat pedestal legs each slightly beveled around each leg and is about 7-8" in diameter. Thanks for your help! Mike
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: langhaugh on December 26, 2010, 09:13:14 PM
Michael:

 If it were common and by Orrefors, yes, most likely you would have been able to find some info on the web about it. The pieces that I find the hardest to  find on the web about are the more limited production pieces such as the Expo and, later, the Gallery pieces. However, these are all very clearly marked and the code is easy to figure out.  I had a quick scan of the Orrefors books I have and I couldn't see a sculpture of a head, although it wouldn't surprise me if someone like Lars Hellsten had done some.

When I mentioned Kosta Boda, I was thinking primarily of Vallien. I'm pretty sure he's never designed for Orrefors.  I can't advise you on the gamble for $165 as it for me it would depend on how much I liked the piece. Would I still like it if turned out that it wasn't by Orrefors? And I wouldn't say I'm an Orrefors expert, like some people on this Board.

Good luck.

David
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on December 27, 2010, 12:51:29 AM
Dear David, Thanks again for your input. I read that Orrefors acquired Kosta Boda in 1990. so I'm not sure there still could be a connection with Bertil Vallien. I also read that as you mentioned earlier that some of the earlier pieces were simply signed OF Or Orrefors. I'm betting on that it is an early piece that is my gut feeling. I will wait for more responses before I decide to go after it though. Your help is immensely appreciated! Thank-You! Mike
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: langhaugh on December 27, 2010, 01:23:29 AM
Mike:

Just to clarify: I didn't say the earliest pieces weer more likely or less likely to be marked simply "Orrefors."  In fact, it's many of the modern, more production type pieces that fall into that category. And, yes, Kosta Boda did join with Orrefors, but I'm pretty sure you still won't see Bertil Vallien's name on any Orrefors pieces. Vallien has been an incredible supporter of the workers in the glassworks where he started, despite a succession of takeovers. Early Vallien would be under the Afors or Boda label.

David
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: kisslikeether on December 27, 2010, 08:47:24 AM
Have you considered Martti Rytkonen as the designer as he has done a lot of figural work?
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on December 30, 2010, 11:24:08 PM
what do the head look like?

Try get a pic, bring your camera or mobile phone.

I can probably help you.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 07, 2011, 09:14:47 AM
I am going to try to apply two re-sized pictures for all to see. Mike
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on January 07, 2011, 09:45:23 AM
I have never seen that head and the ORREFORS writing looks suspicious.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: rosieposie on January 07, 2011, 11:23:35 AM
Hi Mike,  just seen this thread.  I only have a few pieces of Orrefors, but none of the signatures look like yours.  I suspect Daniel S is right.......do you like the head enough to chance it?  Why hasn't it been snapped up already?  You may have to ask yourself these questions before parting with your money.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 07, 2011, 04:17:43 PM
Dear Daniel and others, I did buy the item and have it with me, I E-Mailed the Orrefors company and they are working on the I.D. Also. It is hard to believe that it would be a fake looking at the clarity of the glass, size and craftsmanship it took to produce the item. but I will see. I am wondering if it is Orrefors, could it be a Per B Sunders design? Mike.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 07, 2011, 06:57:42 PM
 I did some quick research this morning, There appears to be three distinct styles of the word Orrefors script or signatures. One is a full cursive style. One is a block/cursive type and one is a block lettering style with no curves to the ends of any lettering.
 Case in point these threads: http://bonanza.com/booths/collectomania/items/orrefors_Ravenna_art_glass_dish_by_Sven_palmquist
 also: www.antiquehelper.com/item362958 This link you need to go to google and enter.
this was just 10 minutes of research. I am at this point undeterred by the difference in the opinion of the signature based on what I have seen and will of course do more research tonight. the sheer heft (this weighs 11 LBS 5 OZ) and the clarity, refinement of detail, and subject matter or style is, in my opinion indicative of a glass works company with the talent and tools to pull off the execution of this piece. the jury is still out on this until I get a response back from the Orrefors representatives. Michael Branch. (2*pleese*u).
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: rosieposie on January 07, 2011, 07:05:29 PM
Hi Mike,  just looked in, and I see what you mean....I have looked at the link, a Sven Palmquist vase, and this is the first time (except for your posting) that I have seen Orrefors written in this script.  I do hope that it really is an Orrefors piece, and a big one at that, but at that size for that price,  it must be worth the money.....
And, to boot,  I will have learned to recognise yet another piece of signed glass.....Please let us know what Orrefors say, won't you?
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: langhaugh on January 07, 2011, 07:31:57 PM
Michael:

Writing to Orrefors is a good idea, although they don't always give you definitive answers.

I suspect Daniel is too modest to tell you, but he has a vast knowledge of Orrefors, having worked there. His grandfather also worked there for a long time.  I think I remember that Daniel has about 1000 pieces of Orrefors, which gives him a good sampling of signatures.

But as I said, writing Orrefors is the best route. Fingers crossed!

David

PS It does look like a very interesting piece.





Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Ivo on January 07, 2011, 10:56:52 PM
Just judging from the lineage of the sig I'd say it is not done by diamond point, so don't get your hopes up...
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 08, 2011, 06:15:09 AM
Dear All, Rosie and Daniel, I did get one response back and am waiting for another. The first response essentially said that the item would not have been a production piece, or it would have had the Designers initials and other code indicating what glass type (format) and code for production run. They went on to say that it may have been a prototype that was not put into production because either it was not considered viable in design or efficacy to produce (to laborious) or labor intensive to make. No designer at this point has been mentioned and no denial that it is not a Orrifors item was mentioned in the E-mail. I thought that i would post two more pictures, whilst I wait for another response back from the company. Michael and added note: I very much respect the opinions of the people here who are at the top of their game vis a vie their knowledge and that is exactly why I came here to search for answers. here are the other two pictures,I can add more but not as many as I want to in one sitting. Michael.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: kisslikeether on January 08, 2011, 07:59:40 AM
The photo's really do shout Martti Rytkönen to me

http://www.swedishartglass.com/shop/image.asp?id=2170
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: rosieposie on January 08, 2011, 11:02:49 AM
Hi Mike,  these are super photos, and looking at the head again,  it looks like the 'columns' and supports are meant to represent wrists and hands, as though the model is holding his/her head.

I hope you get a positive response from Orrefors.....it is such an original piece, I am sure the artist would remember making it if he is shown the pictures.

All that said, if it turns out not to be Orrefors, it is such a great piece that IMO it was well worth the money you paid, and will always be a conversation provoking piece in your home.......I follow the thread with interest and will keep trawling the 'odd parts of the net' to see if I come up with anything useful.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: steph on January 08, 2011, 12:03:17 PM
aargh what a minefield it is out there!!! >:D
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on January 08, 2011, 08:59:28 PM
Could you post larger pics.
800x600 pixels or so. I really can't see what the sculpture looks like.

I wonder who you spoke with at Orrefors since that's not true. Many many pieces are signed Orrefors and even OF. I know for sure since I have done signing myself at OF.

Artglass on the other hand always have a proper signature if sold  as artglass.

During the 70's most artglass was signed by ONE man(Liz). During the 80's ONE woman(Ina).
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: taylog1 on January 08, 2011, 10:30:42 PM
Looks a lot like some of Dino Rosin's glass, doesn't it ?

Gareth
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 08, 2011, 11:46:45 PM
Dear Daniel, The E-Mail and correspondence was sent to and received by Kristina Sparr who said that it most likely is a >Sample< item. What you say is correct, that she also confirmed, that all art glass was signed with an item number, whether it is a >One of a kind< or a >Collection item<.   > First choice< are sold for retail and >Second choice<, sold through factory outlets are never signed. But..... a sample from a Designers studio is. Kristina's Quote: "I believe you have a >Sample< that were intended to be a product but maybe our Product Counsel did not like it or maybe the artist decided to use another color or another style." End Quote. E-mail received on January the 2nd 2011. I understand you skepticism Daniel but I feel I am being lambasted. Should I send you all current correspondence. Be glad to. I just came here for help. Not to be crucified. But Like I said, I do understand you skepticism. Michael.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: taylog1 on January 09, 2011, 12:29:41 AM
Michael,

I don't think Daniel was questioning your veracity, but the accuracy of the person you spoke to at Orrefors

Gareth
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: langhaugh on January 09, 2011, 02:13:50 AM
Michael:

I can appreciate you might feel at this point, but let me assure that I don't believe that any of the comments are intended to personal comments directed at you. I think there are a number of factors here:

1. The signature on this piece doesn't fit it in with what many of have us know and have read about how Orrefors pieces are marked. I've believed that from the start. This anomaly leads us, well, at least me, to approach the piece with some caution. How do we explain the anomaly?

2. It also might be someone else added "Orrefors", which, after all is  the name of a town. There was an engraver who added Orrefors to pieces he bought from Sea Glasbruk, amongst others. As an experienced glass collector, I'm sure you've seen signatures on pieces that shouldn't be there. I've seen obvious examples where the clear intent is fraud, I've seen examples, where someone has just inscribed the wrong attribution long after production, and I've seen a piece labeled as something inferior to what it actually is. Again, this leads me to approach the piece with caution, not judging it as either good or bad, but not being influenced solely by what the marking says.

3. I think we're a little uncertain about the depth of knowledge from Kristina. I read a reply from her in another recent thread, and I really couldn't estimate the the depth of her knowledge, and, consequently, how much faith I should have in her response.

4. English is not the first language of all the people responding to this thread, including Kristina. Our good friend Jindrich put it very well in another thread today, "Please take it easy, I have found than some English speaking people are fiinding much more behind the words really typed.
Please note that not everybody had got this Got's penalty to get English as the first language."

I've been really interested in this piece from the first as I know what interesting stuff you find. You've had a number of interesting suggestions and I don't think we're quite at the stage of even a possible attribution if your intent is resale. I'd love to see more photographs when you have time and I look forward to reading more of what Kristina writes.

David


Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 09, 2011, 06:09:20 AM
Dear Daniel, I feel much better now about my interaction with you and others, Thanks for your reply. I am only looking for answers, I hate loose ends and love the stimulation I receive, learning about Art Glass. I very much respect all that know more than me. How is one supposed to learn if he is not open to the ideas and experiences of others who have gone before him. I look at the item and some common sense questions arise in my mind. Why would someone inscribe Orrefors on it if it is not. To gain value? I mean really.... how much value could one gain by doing this? A couple hundred perhaps? Certainly not thousands in this particular realm or area of Art Glass. The Art Glass Structure Stands well on it's own merits because of the Quality I observe in it already. The Design is stunning I think, the execution and clarity of the item is simply superb in my opinion. The subject matter is very pleasing to the eye. what more could one ask in a fine piece of art. Someone, Somewhere had to have made this. Whomever it was had to have the talent and facilities to pull it off. I doubt it was made in someone's back yard. It is refined. The glass clarity is excellent, there are no air bubbles to speak of, the feet edges are slightly beveled with a consistent bevel. the feet are applied very cleanly. The facial structures are uniform and there are no protruding anomalies anywhere. I am tenacious in my quest for answers. I think that if just one designer could view what we are seeing here, that they would be intrigued enough so that if they did not know, they would pass it on to someone who would, or may know. I don't have those kind of contacts though. Any company official is consider a reply to an E-Mail for political reasons, but would they consider going the extra mile? we will find out.  Until then, I will relay what information I receive, and I hope you and others will do the same. I appreciate very much all who have contributed to this mystery and respect each and every one of you for your knowledge and experience! Michael Branch.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 09, 2011, 08:36:41 AM
I meant David Not Daniel! OOps. Michael
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on January 09, 2011, 09:05:33 AM
HI All

Before the time of the second choice stores all glass that wasn't rated first choice was smashed down.
Prototypes and samples are common and was stored in large shelves at the artglass department. Literally tons of stuff.

Then when a new boss took over OF(My grandfather said who but I have forgot), they realized that too much money was wasted when destroying glass with beauty defects(Bubbles, different height or thickness). So they started a small second choice store. It was a very little store and they did not advertise.

Orrefors back then had a agreement with the regular stores that sold Orrefors glass that Orrefors could not sell first choice signed glass. So Orrefors just sold unsigned pieces. But wait that's not entirely true. Discontinued products, first choice later started to appear in the second choice shop. Also pieces that were rated first choice and signed, but later deemed as seconds because of i.e being too tall. These pieces were then signed with a Roman II.

Samples and such are mostly signed 'OF' 'artist initials' and 'Prov'(Sample in swedish). Writing simply ORREFORS on a sample piece is really not a common practise and it would also be very deceiving. Many pieces are also unsigned.

Theft, it's known that many glass workers brought home a lot of glass. Art glass, regular pieces and so on. These are almost always unsigned. Due to the fact that the pieces where taken before they reached the "signer".

Is your piece free form blown? Most if not all OF figurines are molded.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 09, 2011, 09:23:45 AM
Dear Daniel, I do not believe the item is free blown. It is solid glass and do not see how that could come to fruition  without signs of air bubbles or an air pocket. I see no seams as well but it must have had a mold, I do not see any other way an eleven pound blob of solid molten glass could be formed otherwise. Michael
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on January 09, 2011, 09:27:12 AM
Oh it's that heavy?

What's the dimensions?

Please also post larger pics if available.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 09, 2011, 09:41:34 AM
Dear Daniel S. Yeah, It sure is, 11 pounds, 5.4 ounces. all of it solid glass. the dimensions are 6-3/4" tall (including the legs) and 7-3/4" from the chin to the top of the head and 6-1/2" wide. the main head portion is 4-3/4" thick all of it solid. In fact, there is not any hollow glass associated with it, the legs are solid as well. Tomorrow I have the day off and will try to send more pictures. Revising or resizing pictures is not no strong point but I did manage to down size the photos I have on now. I saw a message that said something about a load limit on picture size limits. Are you familiar with that? 500 KB? The pics I have on now range fron 240x240 Pixels? Michael.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on January 09, 2011, 10:33:46 AM
send the pics to me unedited, full size.
daniel At sosantique DOT se

Mod: email address amended to confuse spam harvesters.
Always best to simply refer people to your email icon below your user details.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 09, 2011, 01:23:29 PM
eeeeeek! Daniel, I hope you don't mind, I'm going to ask a moderator to alter your post to disguise your address - you don't want to get phished!
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on January 09, 2011, 01:35:02 PM
maybe a good idea, thank for the tip
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 10, 2011, 07:55:54 AM
Dear Daniel, I have tried 4 times to send you an e-mail with larger pictures all failed, reason given was (unknown host can't find server) lets explore new options. Mike at 1-720-838-3177.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 10, 2011, 03:33:32 PM
Dear Daniel, I am glad you received my my e-mail finally with all those very clear pictures! Michael
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 11, 2011, 03:41:22 AM
I was re-reading my replies, David, I would love to send you more pictures like I did for Daniel, Just say the word, or if you know Daniel well enough, ask him to forward them to you. this would be the safest way. Again, I really appreciate each and every input towards this item by everyone, even you Ivo. I am an honest and up front guy, I tell it like it is and do expect the same from my counterparts. Warm Regards Michael Branch.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 14, 2011, 05:36:33 PM
Hey all, Yesterday I received what may be the last response from the Orrefors glass Co. Kristina Sparr sent me an E-Mail that essentially said that they could not find a definite attribution for the sculpture but suggested two names of designers which could have produced the item. the two names that she mentioned, she said no longer work for Orrefors Glass Co. (Lars Hellsten) or (Jan Johansson). In my previous reply to her, I asked about the script signature and it being not diamond point. There was no rebuttal on that question but I have since found in my own research items online that are signed Orrefors in which the diamond point engraver was not used. these are notable items, so the question by IVO about the linage being suspect has been overcome at least from my perspective. here are three examples I found on E-Bay. there are other examples, I found on the web. 1. Lars Hellsten paperweight bowl item #110627627746. 2. Anne Nilsson Graal vase/bowl #380222328706. 3.Orrefors clear glass bull Item number 350429092228. Again another example of the block lettering with no curved flares to the ends of any individual lettering at www.antiquehelper.com/item362958 although this example was done in diamond point. It seems my research has hit an impasse for now, but I do believe this was made by the Orrefors glass Co. I do plan to resale the item soon as that is what I do, besides Carpentry. Michael.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Daniel S on January 27, 2011, 10:02:54 AM
sorry for a late reply.

The bull isn't even from Orrefors. For me the ORREFORS signature on your sculpture will always be fake. And as OF has confirmed, they don't have it on file.

Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 27, 2011, 05:17:35 PM
Dear Daniel, The E-Mails to me from Orrefors describe this item to be a heart sculpture made for a hospital and for a heart surgery unit convention. [edited] I never once said that this was part of the Orrefors normal production run. I never mention that this was produced by an employed Designer at Orrefors. My information is not pulled from thin air but is, and are from direct quotes from the responses back from Orrefors. the item was made at the Orrefors factory and that is factual. the item was produced using Orrefors infrastructure and talent that is factual.[edited] I doubt this Designer was a carpenter who carved her own mold, a gaffer, ect... the facts are that it was indeed made there even though it did not run the course of the normal production procedures such as a Design committee design number etc. The reason for this as I EXPLAIN in my description is that it was made by an outside Designer who was not employed by the company. It is a custom piece. You can certainly say that the signature is fake but [edited] it was indeed made at the factory and edited the infrastructure of the factory was not used to create the sculpture. [edited] Michael

Mod: Post edited to conform with GMB guidelines.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Lustrousstone on January 27, 2011, 05:28:12 PM
You reply is, shall we say, impolite. You have not told us that you have definitely had your piece ID'd by Orrefors, and you did cite a bull earlier: this one (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350429092228). I suspect this is what Daniel is referring to.

Can I also cite GMB policy http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6521.0.html
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 27, 2011, 06:00:18 PM
You are right about the link to the bull, but that link is not mentioned in my description of the item. Your assessment that I am being impolite is not true, I am only defending myself and my research which can in fact be backed up via the E-mails I have received from Orrefors company representatives. I can only defend my research by using known facts which are at my disposal and which I have in fact received and can be proven. I am of course human and do make mistakes enter the example of the bull. But at least I have the ability to admit that I am fallible as a human being and this will and can happen to anyone when doing research. The point I am trying to make is that there may be exceptions and exceptions do occur.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Cathy B on January 27, 2011, 09:01:02 PM
Hi Michael,

I'm sorry, but I've had to edit your post to bring it into line with posting guidelines. We don't allow posts which are insulting, and unfortunately several of your comments were so I've had to delete those sections. Please note the following section of GMB Board Policy:

Quote
For your guidance, the following are not permitted on the Glass Message Board

    * Messages containing elements that are obscene, vulgar, blasphemous, racist or sexist
    * Messages that are defamatory or libelous. As this is not always immediately clear, the Moderator(s) may err on the side of caution.

Possible reasons for removal of messages by the Moderator(s) would include: those which are offensive to other people, for reasons other than the content of the argument being made (if any); messages which pertain to personal disputes; messages which are threatening, intimidatory, insulting, obscene, abusive, or obnoxious; attempts to deliberately deceive other members. As this is not always immediately clear, the Moderator(s) may err on the side of caution.


When a disagreement does arise, it's important to state facts without making personal comments directed at anyone else.

That said, the information you've raised is incredibly interesting. Are you able to cut and paste the emails from Orrefors into a post? New information of this sort is always exciting and we'd love to see what they have said. I do hope that you're not frightened off by these rules. We do welcome differences of opinion! Some of the most fascinating information emerges out of disagreements. Just keep it civil and avoid personal attacks, and you'll be fine.

You mention that you're having trouble with the photographs. If you use Irfanview to edit them, adjust the size so that the longest edge is 700 pixels and save, and your image file size should be small enough to attach, but still expand to be large enough to see the detail.

Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 28, 2011, 03:39:26 PM
Dear Moderator, (possibly Anne) I understand the rules I'm hoping that they apply to everyone who has entertained a reply to my posting, It does not appear to me that it does, as I am the only one being edited. I have sent you 2 E-mails, would you be so kind as to reply to them. Thanks Michael.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: KevinH on January 29, 2011, 01:37:44 AM
Hello Michael,

On behalf of the moderators, I can confirm that your emails have been received and we are considering them.

However, because of the different activity times of the moderators, it may take us a while to gather our thoughts and respond to your emails. Hence this quick response in the thread.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on January 29, 2011, 04:54:28 AM
Thank-You That sounds very fair. Michael
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Anne on February 02, 2011, 02:42:12 AM
Hi Michael, I've been away from home on family business for almost a week so have only just read your emails but I understand others in the mod team have been considering the matter.

As not all the mods are around all the time, if you want to comment to a moderator on any post or topic, the best way to do so is to use the Report to Moderator button on it as that sends a message to all mods simultaneously. Emailing any one of us can result in seemingly inexplicable delays if we are absent for any reason.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: Cathy B on February 03, 2011, 04:15:31 AM
In Anne's absence, I've been corresponding with Michael and with Kristina Sparr from Orrefors.

Kristina has confirmed that she provided the following information about the piece:


Maybe something is being lost in translation, but doesn't that mean the heart was been made by a young female designer, not an employee of Orrefors at any time, in the Orrefors hot shop because she'd hired time there?

It might be interesting to try to track down this young female designer, or perhaps the hospital.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on February 03, 2011, 11:15:37 PM
Dear Cathy,  Thank-you for taking the reins on this subject, I had, had enough controversy to last a lifetime so took a break from it, and was considering to let the subject die. when I e-mailed you the Replies from Orrefors, and asked you not to publish them that was for my own edification. I didn't feel I needed to prove anything to anyone anymore based on the responses I have received so far, which have been somewhat negative in nature (but I understand the cynicism). You suggested that I post them here to verify and give some weight to my argument. But..... I don't want to argue. I agree that this was not produced by Orrefors the company. all my posts up till now with respect to the signature itself are efforts of mine to bring to light that there can be exceptions and exceptions do occur. Even a novice collector can find truth. Fact is, I was told the block style script was not Orrefors script and did find some samples, Fact is, I was told Orrefors signatures were employed by the use of a diamond tip engraver. I found other examples that weren't. So I am a common sense guy, and I ask myself, why is there inconsistencies in what I am being told. I question like you and everyone else here we are trying to find answers to what we don't know. In summary, We know that the item was now made at the Orrefors Factory in the hot shop. We know that if this is true, it would have meant that the infrastructure of the factory was used, at least that is what my common sense side of me is telling me. If this is the case, Was the actual glass (raw product, before smelting) brought in, was talent from Orrefors used to complete this item in any manner or form (Ie Anders Carlsson's Talent for making molds?) Did the female designer carve her own mold and bring it in to use? How would Anders Carlson have first hand knowledge of this item? Did the designer bring it in for show and tell? Who was the gather?, who was the Finisher? all great questions. As for the signature, In retrospect, I believe, it may have been added by the designer herself but I have no definitive proof she did or someone from Orrefors or anyone for that matter. Common sense tells me that whomever put the signature there, had to have known that it was created there, whether it was applied using proper procedure or not.  The Issue in my mind is not the signature Micky Mouse could have put it there. The question you have to ask, Is... Was this made there? and it apparently was. Is this an Orrefors Product, No We have already determined that. Is it a fantastic modern Rendering....I sure think so, no matter who made it. Michael Branch.

On an added note, I did endeavor to research the hospital itself. I went to the web site and looked under public relations/ awards/contributions ect... any link I could think of. I was limited because of the language barrier as all information I could not get in English. I did not attempt to E-Mail the hospital because, I did not think I would be considered any kind of priority and because of the language barrier. There have been contributions by the Orrefors Co. from what limited information that I could see. It seemed to me, (and I could be wrong) that They do apparently have a gift shop which does sell Orrefors glass.
Title: Re: Orrefors Head sculpture?
Post by: 2*pleese*u on February 04, 2011, 05:57:35 AM
Dear Cathy,  Thank-you for taking the reins on this subject, I had, had enough controversy to last a lifetime so took a break from it, and was considering to let the subject die. when I E-Mailed you the Replies from Orrefors, and asked you not to publish them, that was for my own edification. I didn't feel I needed to prove anything to anyone anymore based on the responses I have received so far, which have been somewhat negative in nature (but I understand the cynicism). You suggested that I post them here to verify and give some weight to my argument. But..... I don't want to argue. I agree that this was not produced by Orrefors the company. all my posts up till now with respect to the signature itself are efforts of mine to bring to light that there can be exceptions and exceptions do occur. Even a novice collector can find truth. Fact is, I was told the block style script was not Orrefors script and did find some samples (more than two I may add), Fact is, I was told Orrefors signatures were employed by the use of a diamond tip engraver only. I found other examples that weren't. (more than two I may add), So I am a common sense guy, and I ask myself, why is there inconsistencies in what I am being told. I question, you question, and everyone else here. It is human nature to do so. It is also human nature to mistrust. I am actually an Honest guy and always have been. We all are trying to find answers to what we don't know. In summary, We know that the item was now made at the Orrefors Factory in the hot shop. We know that if this is true, it would have meant that the infrastructure of the factory was used, at least that is what my common sense side of me is telling me. If this is the case, Was the actual glass (raw product, before smelting) brought in, was talent from Orrefors used to complete this item in any manner or form (Ie Anders Carlsson's Talent for making molds?) Did the female designer carve her own mold and bring it in to use? How would Anders Carlson have first hand knowledge of this item? Did the designer bring it in for show and tell? Who was the gather?, who was the Finisher? all great questions. As for the signature, In retrospect, I believe, it may have been added by the designer herself but I have no definitive proof she did or someone from Orrefors or anyone for that matter. Common sense tells me, I would entertain the hypothesis  that whomever put the signature there, had to have known that it was created at Orrefors, whether it was applied using proper procedure/personel or not, and... that the signature is an indication only, the origin of where the item was made. We.....have determined it is not an Orrefors Co. Item as Daniel has determined and researched and found on his own volition, this item is not listed, and of course, it wouldn't be because it was made by an outside designer.  The Issue in my mind, is not the signature, Micky Mouse could have put it there. The question now Is... Was this made there? and it apparently was. Is this an Orrefors Product, No We have already determined that, and who is the mysterious Designer? Is it a fantastic modern Rendering....I sure think so, no matter who made it at the Orrefors facility. Michael Branch.

On an added note, I did endeavor to research the hospital itself. I went to the web site and looked under public relations/ awards/contributions ect... any link I could think of. I was limited because of the language barrier as all information I could not get in English. I did not attempt to E-Mail the hospital because, I did not think I would be considered any kind of priority and because of the language barrier. There have been contributions by the Orrefors Co. from what limited information that I could see. It seemed to me, (and I could be wrong) that They do apparently have a gift shop which does sell Orrefors glass.


This is the amended version of the 1st reply above. Michael