Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Frank on December 08, 2004, 07:39:00 PM
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Marcus could you have a look at the Czech vases on the first row of THIS PAGE (http://www.ysartglass.com/Ysart/NotYsart.htm) please. I would love to ID the glassworks and have been trying for only 20 years so far, ditto the second row which might not be Czech/Bohemian etc.
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Hi Frank, With my less than perfect knowledge, the most obvious candidate amongst Czech/Slovak/Bohemian glassworks for this glass may well be Ceskomoravske Sklarny, at Krasno nad Becvou, not to be confused with Krosno, Poland. They appear to have had some similar glass, though not necessarily the forms. Examples that spring to mind are those one-offs, designed by L. Smrckova, @ 1940, Bohemian Glass, Drahatova and Langhamer for Crystalex, Novy Bor, 1985?, and Modernes Glas Von Ludvika Smrckova, M Holubova, Artia, Prague, 1961.
I do not currently have examples of their labels. Ivo?
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The one labelled exampled, shown, included the word Chrysoprase and part of Czechoslovakia, the rest was illegible. The label was either embossed on silver coated paper or printed with a thermographic silver ink. That places it betweem the thirties to late sixties. I cannot see it being later. It also occurs in a pastel blue ground and a pastel pink ground. I feel it is 50's. It is certainly not a one off design as it occurs in so many shapes and is often styled with the fifties version of Art Deco as well as more traditional shapes.
Ivo has thought about it in the past, I never let anyone who shows some interest in this area get away without their thoughts. :twisted:
We will get there in the end. Thanks.
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Sorry Frank, was pointing in the direction of the type of glass as used for a series of one offs, not that the forms themselves were one-offs.
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Hi Frank,
Having gone back and looked at several images this morning, the glassworks above may be a good candidate as possible producers of cellophane glass as seen in line 2, the green/brown colourway.
Marcus
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I googled Ceskomoravske Sklarny but did not get very far as everything was in Czech, one was an auction listing but no image.
The 'Cellophane' glass is quite unusual being a very thick glass, typically 3x-4x the thickness of Monart. Quality is high and I wonder at how such heavy pieces were made. Pontils are ground and polished. Colour most commonly found is the Green/Orangey-Brown as shown, Blue/Red appears less frequently and other colourings from time to time. The colour has an unusual quality, fully translucent, that I have not seen elsewhere. It is the similarity of the colouring to old cellophane sweet wrappers that lead to my term for the glass. Very difficult to get across in a photograph. There appears to be many designs and I have several more still to include on the site. Generally they exhibit sufficient wear that suggests a date as early as the 1920's being possible and most surface in the UK, usually described as Monart. Some years ago a collector reported seeing an example at the Passau Glass museum but did not take any notes. When I went there could find nothing even close and at the time of my visit there was no one available to give advice.
I have added some images and improved all of the other images on the page now. LINK (http://www.ysartglass.com/NotYsart.htm)
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One of the major difficulties with Czechoslovakian glassworks is the difficulty in establishing the post-war histories of glassworks during the years of communist control. The expulsion of Sudeten Germans, with the changing of placenames, Carlsbad to Karlovy Vary etc did not help.
Following the nationalisation of the major industries in 1945, things got even more uncertain. For example Borocrystal based in Novy Bor, consisted of 55 glass workshops (1948) but according to some sources, by 1951, the Borocrystal Narodni Podnik had closed 30 workshops, with another nine devolved???? (Closed/Making different product???Transferred to other national corporations???) Nor is it easy to find out which workshops were involved, which closed, etc.
Centralised planning and organisation linked companies together, and few factories kept original names. Moser and Egermann just hung on to their names, as pragmatists realised the importance of quality brand-names.In 1951, the first re-organisation of the glass industry, towards the end of the First Five-Year Plan, created eight Narodni Podniks, covering 43 factories. Changes, re-structuring, renaming happened on a regular basis.
I am working my way through this morass, to work out a chronology of post-war Czechoslovakian glassworks, but it is slow going. Once I have more on Cesko-moravske, will post it for you.
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Frank, Ivo,
What info do you have on a company called S. Reich and Co? It would appear that Reich had some 14 factories around the Krasno nad Becvou area, pre-war and that at least some of these became part of Ceskomoravske Sklarny.
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Ivo is away. In his book he mentions:
S Reich & Co. Glasfabriek, Krasno CZ 1855-1939 - Lighting and shades.
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Hi guys I'm back from a most interesting romp around Vienna, Bratislava and Budapest.
The complete catalogues of S. Reich were published 2003 by Geiselberger (PK2003-2-2); they are reprints from the originals which are in Okresniho vlastivedného muzea Vsetin and Valasske Mezirici. The first available one is from the 1860s, then there are catalogues from 1873, 1880, 1925, 1930, 1934, 1935, 1936. With a bit of luck you can get them from Geiselberger in PDF format. How's your German, Marcus?
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"How's your German, Marcus?"
Ivo,
Worse than my Czech or French, so will access the Czech versions.
Thanks for the pointer, seems an extremely interesting site.
Regards,
Marcus
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For research purposes you should contact him, his database of CZ glassworks and publications is fabulous. As luck will have it most of the glass brochures are in German - the trade language of the time - not in czech.
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New information.
Harrachov glassworks introduced chrysoprase c 1827 a coloured glass that is a mixture of uranium glass with bone or alabaster glass.
Spelling of chrysoprase corrected here and in other threads.
Obviously much earlier than this threads subject! But it does show the term was used by Harrachov. If anyone has a piece of this glass can they check if it is Uranium glass?
(Source withheld as part of ongoing research)
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I don't know whether this adds anything to this discussion or just confuses things, but according to Langhamer's The Legend of Bohemian Glass, "the 1830s brought the first glass colored with uranium oxide" and Harrach "made uranium glass containing some alabaster under the name 'chrysopras' (1831), and later perfected a uranium yellow glass."
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Correction, please. The first uranium glass dates from 1830 (not circa) and was made by Franz-Anton Riedel.
"Chrysopras(e)" is an opaque apple-green banded chalcedony.
What Langhamer refers to is in the range of imitation semi-precious stones which was pioneered by Harrach'sche, Egermann and Bucquoy - but Chrysoprase was not perfected as a solid colour until 1843 when it was launched by Baccarat.
Uranium oxide as a colorant was used for imitation precious stones before it was developed for colouring glass.
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Thanks Ivo, I am fairly certain that the Chrysophase I seek was a product name used 1920s-50's or 60's latest and probably not uranium, just marvered and cased glass with aventurine found in apple green, pastel blue and pastel pink.
Somewhere there must be one with a complete label. But at least we have gotten a lot further in the last 4 years than in the last 20 of hunting.
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Cellophane vase for sale here with an acid etched mark on the base.
In case the sale disappears, the vase is orange splotches with a black?(v.dark brown?) splotched (smaller splotches than the orange effect on the body) effect around the rim.
The shape curves down from the rim into a small bottom that has an applied clear glass foot.
The base has a fairly large pontil mark (but not wide like a French pontil mark or a Stevens and Williams pontil mark) with an acid etched mark on it.
The acid etched mark is a circle with what appears to be two letters inside it (bad photo or bad mark and difficult to photograph). The letters appear to be IU or nI - very difficult to tell.
Described by seller as:
'This is very heavy and solid measuring about 7 1/4" tall and 5 5/8" diameter. Very thick glass that has layers of deep orange/red and black, over a clear end of day orange spotted layer. ...'
http://www.rubylane.com/item/518922-419jax78-285a/Antique-Signed-Czech-Fine-Glass-Vase
Just posting in case the mark helps id it.
m
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Nicely spotted, have asked seller for clearer picture with advice on doing that.
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I'm not sure where this fits in really but this evening I just suddenly wondered whether the 'cellophane' vases we see were made by Reich Krasno
http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2014-1w-menay-reich-vase-1934.pdf
see page 5 on the link (seite 5/7) and 2nd photo down on the right hand side of the page
So adding that here just in case I forget :)
m
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having read the whole thread now I realise I was repeating information already discussed about Reich :-[ apologies.
m
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According to this site, the maker of the vases known as 'cellophane' glass here on the GMB appears to be Hantich
http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-vrstvene-sklo-923/detail/
m
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Having translated that site, it looks to say 'probably Hantich' so eek, perhaps not yet definitive. In fact it is designated with an asterisk so they say that means 'possibly'.
The vase in this link though, definitely has the Made in Czechoslovakia mark on it:
http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-vrstvene-sklo-923/detail/
There is some interesting information in this link to ICOM glass review no 2 (2013?) about Hantich Glass on pages 15-19
https://issuu.com/icom-glass_reviewsonglass01/docs/review_on_glass_2/19
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Wow. Well found m. Frank's been looking for over 20 years!
Were you just googling or did you have a direct lead?
I see the google English transaltion of "váza vrstvené sklo" is "lamimated glass vase". Could that be a factory description or a collector / researcher name. I guess it's better meaning is "layered" (or "cased").
Yes, "probably" stated at the end of the text.
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Kev I honestly cannot remember how I found that site now!
I've not had time to do any researching recently and just every now and again decide to have a potter :)
I was searching for some Bohemian cameo glass I think and just came upon it and decided to do some exploring on the site.
I've been modifying my post as you wrote and it does say 'possibly' (asterisk) and then 'probably'.
But I suppose it's something to go on when up to now we have had nothing, not even a sniff of a name, which is ridiculous given that these do crop up at least annually.
Also one of those is marked Czechoslovakia so we have two now with marks (can't remember what colour the Ruby Lane one was, so it might be the same vase for all I know, but we do know it's marked at least).
Anyway, another link in the puzzle. I have to say it's at least plausible as a maker.
The reason I'm interested is because I have an amber piece with green streaks internally cased in it. It's very hefty and heavy looking and reminds me very much of the cellophane vases. I've always though they might be the same maker.
m
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Kev I replied above but just to say that after I replied, the very next post I clicked on in the Bohemian glass section has a link to that same site! That is a huge coincidence.
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M said two posts above:
... can't remember what colour the Ruby Lane one was.
It is amber blobs with some hint of pink and very dark and purple streaks in a wide band at the neck.
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Great. So definitely two marked 'made in Czechoslovakia'. :) Progress!
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That is brilliant, and it is 30+ years Kev :-) Will explore that more next week.
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ooh, fascinating given my amber with green streaks vase comment:
That same Bohemian glass site has these listed as Loetz non-identified (no asterisk next to the title)
http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/loetz1/neidentifikovane/nid-22/
Amber with green streaks and crackle in the amber - that is identical to my bowl decor :)
and funny that I posted on this thread saying the vase/bowl reminded me of the construction of my amber bowl with green streaks
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,67845.msg377522.html#msg377522
because that Bohemian Glass site also has what I believe to be that range listed as Nonidentified Loetz:
http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-nid-18-new-chalcedon-gold-glass-3138/detail/
again no asterisk against it (there are others on there with asterisks), where the asterisk I believe denotes a 'possible'.
m
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Loetz long since got trashed as a source.
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Was only referring to Loetz as a possible source in connection with my amber crackle bowl with internal green stripe decoration Frank.
Not in reference to the 'cellophane' glass vases.
m
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OK
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Being we now know it is Czech is a brilliant confirmation!
It always struck me as likely, just because of the decadent thickness of the glass which is such a noticeable (and unnecessary) quality of Communist era Czech glass.
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I don't have any ' cellophane ' glass pieces so I can't compare unfortunately.
But the amber crackle with green threads bowl is inordinately heavy, weirdly heavy. It just doesn't look like it should be as it looks quite refined but then you lift it up and it's a shock, as though it is very dense glass or something. Odd.
Are the cellophane pieces like that as well do you recall?
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Yes, astonishingly thick glass.
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Comparing to the known range from Hantich, this strikes me as a very plausible attribution!
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Just in case they do turn out to be by Hantich & co here is some information I found on the company history:
http://www.glassrevue.com/news.asp@nid=4101.html7
http://www.glassrevue.com/news.asp@nid=4101.html
m
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for anyone interested in seeing ' cellophane ' glass close up see this link which can be enlarged to show some detail:
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/tring-market-auctions/catalogue-id-srtri10008/lot-c744ab35-c496-42e9-9240-a43a0151fdda
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using the translate option I've translated the article attached in my post #36 above.
Within the information it says:
'As early as 1922, the company offered a wide range of colored glass and painted glass (for example, garnet glass), lead crystal products with cut decors, glass from "special crystal" (I could not define it) and so on. It was mainly beverage and decorative glass ... shoe holders and more. An interesting part of the production at that time was undoubtedly densely decorated glass, where techniques of cracking, optical forms, chipped decors appear' (my underlining)
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Hello all, hope all are well. Here are three which i think to be by the same maker. 16cm in height with a rim of 17cm.
They vary in thickness and weight. The green is uranium. Weight wise the multicoloured one is 2.5kg, the green 1.2kg and the brown 830 grams.
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Interesting. The weight of the multicoloured one particularly.
They look a bit rustic. What is the pontil mark like on each of them please? Just curious to know.
Thanks for sharing btw.
m
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Polished on all three.
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Lovely - thank you.
It's a conundrum for now.
m
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I was reading a long description, translated from Czech, regarding Hantich designs and wondering what some of the items described looked like. I found these just in case they become relevant to this discussion:
https://emuseum.duesseldorf.de/people/24382/glashuttenwerke-hantich--co/objects
Partly looking because I came across these two vases and wondered from the description I'd read in the article, whether they looked like the described Hantich designs. They have quite a lot of similarities with the deep blue flakon with applied prunts:
http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-art-deco-iris-nalepy-1707/detail/
Museum details of the Nuppenflakon here:
https://emuseum.duesseldorf.de/objects/303974/nuppenflakon?ctx=6e5efa8f-c649-4cc5-af3b-2d001be8f6b3&idx=2
I don't know (muses to self). I'm not convinced to be honest. We see quite a few of these ' cellophane ' vases here yet nothing is showing up as evidence elsewhere. It's a bit strange.
m
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Not so strange if they were mostly exported to UK.
Need to find their UK importer.
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Good point.
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following up Johnolyth I came across this, not sure how it relates as no Hantich pages on first glance. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/ciohz/bohemian-glass-patterns-glass-catalogs/
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and https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=27487.0
A Spanish reference to Hantich in English https://issuu.com/icom-glass_reviewsonglass01/docs/review_on_glass_2/19
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Frank - thank you for the first link to the pINterest ! I've never found that and it's really helpful for other things.
Hantich did make some particular tango type stuff which might be why it's come up (the item appears on a mixed page from multiple maker iirc) but I can't remember on which page they might be.
Going out but will have a search through that lot later.
The plate. The colours are pretty good for my lampbase (not sure if you've seen that thread) and other vases that I am sure are from the same maker as my lampbase. But are they any good for ' cellophane ' vases. I'm not sure.
Hantich has a really 'difficult to follow' history from the article I was reading. So that might be why the multiple pinterest page came up.
m
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I found this as well:
http://www.glassrevue.com/news.asp@nid=4168.html
Frank in the last link you gave above, the pieces shown are Reich production.
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That article was interesting as it refers to a practise of sandwiching decoration between two thick layers... so more incidental support for the source of 'Cellophane'.
The unusual nature of the transparency of the colours used in 'Cellophane' should provide a final clue if it can be found in Hantich's other products. It is so distinctive and probably has some metallic component.
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Frank, scroll down on this link and there is at the bottom of that catalogue for sale listing, a bright orange/tan coloured organic shaped vase with mica in it. It comes from the Hantich Plant Borske Sklo - there was something in the article I read that the Hantich plant was taken over by Borske Sklo? maybe? something like that. That vase dates to the 1950s. I wonder if when their is talk about metallic inclusions in cased glass, that is what they are talking about. A different period in the life of at least the Hantich plant.
I do wonder if the ' cellophane ' vases date to that period also?
https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/414217551/_RARE_CZECH_ART_GLASS_REFERENCE_MATERIAL_POST_WAR_CONTEMPORARY_CZECH_ART_GLASS_VOL_VII_MINT.html
https://img.bidorbuy.co.za/image/upload/f_auto,q_auto:best/user_images/633/1252633/190510230030_post-war%20and%20contemporary%20czech%20art%20glass%20veliskova.jpg
However, the use of two colours and the shading effect on the 'cellophane' glass is quite similar to a few of the Johnolyth pieces as well. That two coloured graded effect is also what makes me think that the feathered effect vases (two that I've found in two colour glass) and my feathered effect lampbase also two coloured (no mica in the pieces I'm thinking of) also might come from Hantich.
Just adding a link to a what should be a good picture of three cellophone vases together to show the graded colour variation:
http://www.bohemianglass.org/image/preview/?image=1539797140_dsc08981.JPG&width=1000&height=700&exact=0
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Would it help if I posted you a piece to handle? I only have the plain red one left which is quite small.
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No, don't part with it. I can imagine it :)
I have an amber bowl with the green fronds/ribbons and it's very heavy so I can imagine the ' cellophane ' pieces.
We'll get there. It has to be a Czech maker. Thinking also that if it is marked 'made in Czechoslovakia' that might be a clue to dating. So after 1930 (can't remember the exact dating on that but there is definitely something Craig put out about that mark and dates of it) but I wonder when that marking stopped?
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Cellophane vase here marked Czecho slovakia in two lines on the base inside the pontil mark:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394055691702?hash=item5bbf8cadb6:g:uMsAAOSwyNJib~fU
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Great find!
It is an acid etched mark, in a circle.
I wonder if the seller would be kind enough to allow us to keep a copy of the image.
It is evidence.
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Just to add to your description Sue, the lettering is etched with each letter in outline with the internal space of each letter unetched (or at least it looks like that to me)
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Yes, it's a bit strange. But we might as well get as good a description as we can muster.
The letters stand out clear, against a darker grey surround, which is individual to each word. It's clear again around the surround and up to the enclosing circle.
Is it a double circle, or just the way the light hits it in the pic?
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I also thought it was a double circle. A little like the letters are outlined so is the circle surround possibly?
So that is two versions now that have been marked Czechoslovakia. At least we can be sure that's where they were made then :) Finding the maker is a different matter.
m
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It looks like a fainter ring around the inner one, definitely seperate from it, and not as dark as the (almost smoke-like) grey surround on the lettering.
:) :) :)
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Another example with same mark as on eBay https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-vrstvene-sklo-925/detail/
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So we have a few now. Definitely made in Czechoslovakia.
On the site you link to Frank, his description of maker is 'Probably a product of Hantich'
Will keep an eye out to see if there are any Hantich products that can be found which are marked in the same way with that base mark.
m