Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: karelm on February 02, 2007, 12:03:55 PM
-
Sorry if this has been discussed but I searched and couldnt find any info on it.
Have a look at this weight:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4829
A typical chinese weight complete with KevH's leaves (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7796.msg65741.html#msg65741) The glass is clear and may have a slight green tinge to it (but the green can be from the leaves). The base has been smoothed and polished but is still slightly opauge (sp??) and there is no pointil mark.
But have a look at this cane from the weight:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4828
This little flower is a single cane. The leaves are the same design as the larger ones. The flower has a yellow centre and six or seven small red petals.
Now have a look at this ebay item:280074939385 (it went expensively I thought)
Same little flower at 9'o clock.
Can it then be assumed that this factory started marking their work, or did they stop marking their work? Have a look at this one: http://www.wilhelmsen.no/glass/paperweight.chinese01.JPG (link culled from http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,8048.msg68186.html#msg68186). The same factory I think. KevH's leaves are there, the 3 stars cane (reminds of the chinese flag stars), but this time no flower cane. Also the ashtray in the original link where KevH mentioned the leaves, does not have a flower cane (but that should not be a surprise).
As a matter of intrest I have physically seen another weight similar to my one that also had the flower cane, sadly I thought 50 euro to much to pay for it! The fact that I know of at least 3 weights means they cannot be very rare.
So anyone have any other weight with this little flower in it or any other info?
Kind regards,
KarelM
-
i've had quite a few of them with the flower canes and the bird canes
-
Obviously this is not earth shattering news to anybody ;D and only I have been in the dark!
Anybody care to post a pic of the bird cane?
Also does anyone know when these started apearing on the market and if they still do?
Thanks
-
I am not aware of any mention of a Chinese weight having a signature cane but can see no reason why not, even if not officially announced. The way that particular flower is used could lead to such as conclusion so is it used on its own like that in many other weights?
-
As I said above have a look at this item on e bay: 280074939385 (sorry the whole link thing is not working for me at the moment!!) I have also held another weight in my hands with the same flower cane in it.
Ray has had a couple of them pass his hands....
Another reason...not mentioned in my first post...that I believe that this is a signature cane or at least a factory mark:
We as westerners do not have a clue what the east sees as estetically pleasing. I am sure if there are some chinese people on this board they will agree that this "signature cane" is something that has been placed in the weight only to please the western market.
But Yes from what I have been able to observe this cane is being used as a signature or as a mark.
The names escape me now ;D ;D ;D but I know there are 2 people on here that may be able to help us, the one is intrested in signature canes and the other in chinese weights....
-
I see no reason to believe that the Rose cane is a true signature cane. Just the same as those Green Leaves are not a real signature cane.
However, as with my comment some time ago about those particular Leaves being "as good as a signature cane" (or words to that effect), that Rose cane can be treated in the same way ... if either are seen in an otherwise unidentified weight, then it is a fair bet that the weight is Chinese. But that's all it means.
The Chinese have actually used a genuine "signature cane". In the 1930s period, many weights were made with "CHINA" or "MADE IN CHINA" set as letters in canes. But even then, no individal factory or worker was identified - just China.
-
I see no reason to believe that the Rose cane is a true signature cane. Just the same as those Green Leaves are not a real signature cane.
I beg to differ.
The rose/flower cane has only been used as a single cane in the three examples I have seen. The other canes that I have seen (leaves and the chinese star; and I know of a blue cane and a pinkish one being used in conjunction with the other two but have not physically seen them) have always been used in abundance. This is a single cane inserted in particular weights, as we know there are several other weights using the same canes without this one being present I believe it to a signature/mark.
Having left this post for 30 minutes without sending it another thought has come up: We know that in the past many glassmakers have shared canes and it could be possible that some canes are being shared in China whilst this cane is only being used by a specific manufacturer.
It would also be intresting to see a pic of the "bird"cane and to know if it is being used as a single or multipile cane in weights. And of course the whole theory will be blown if somebody has a weight wih this cane (either bird or flower)being used multiple times!!!
-
The bird canes when they do appear come in pairs. I have always seen them two to a weight and prominently in the center area. The rose cane when it is used, is only used once and is always off to the extreme side - so much so that it is often difficult to photograph. I am inclined to believe that it is a maker's mark of some sort, but hasten to add that it would be impossible to prove.
The 1930's weights were generally done by cottage artisans and a factory representative would travel around to deliver cane supplies and pick up the finished pieces. It could very well be a company mark or an individual artisan's mark.
The "China" and "Made in China" canes infrequently found are more designed to comply with the country-of-origin markings required by USA import laws.
-
Could somebody post a pic of the bird cane please?
Thanks
-
There has never been a signature cane in a Chinese paperweight unless it was a copy of someone else's signature cane, which is not an improbability considering China-made imitations.
As noted, when the word "China" or "Made in China" appears - often lettering on a white rectangle - it's about import restrictions. Often, companies make paperweights for specific markets. For example, virtually all of D'Albret's sulphides were shipped to the U.S. market.
Not to roil the waters, stir the pot, or bring up the you-know-what again, but there is limited scholarship on Chinese paperweights, as they are assembly-line products, very easy to identify, and quite ubiquitous.
-
Wrightoutlook,
I fully agree with everything you say!
BUT, (you knew there was one coming >:D) and this is a big but, that is the whole point of posting this message.
What I am postulating (maybe that is to a strong word) is that this may indeed be a signature cane of a factory, or although highly unlikely an individual, and that would then at least give us some reference point on Chinese weights.
The theory is shaky, I admit, but I believe that there is enough out there that at least as a theory this is possible. As I have never seen the bird cane I cannot really comment on it but, as addg, and myself, have said on this post the flower/rose cane is used on the outer edge as a single cane. Even to a westerner like me who is not atuned to the eastern astetics (sp?) it is clear that this cane does not fit into the rest of the picture of the weight. (As an aside, who in their right mind would design a lovely weight with the most amazing detailed canes, that you cannot apreciate without a magnifying glass, and then put an amaturish cane depicting the letter "P" slap bang in the middle of it! Simply somebody that wants to have their work attributed to them!)
Over and above the cane not fitting in with the pattern it is either used only on specific weights OR it was only used after or before a certain point in time. I am hoping that the time issue is correct as that would also give us some kind of refrence to date.
I would love to research this a bit further, so if anybody has a weight with the flower or the bird cane please send me photo's. If possible 3 views; total weight, the base and obviously the cane; please also send me the weight (I mean how much it weighs, although I'll pay postage if you dont want it ;D) and an idea of the size. The adress is " karelm at myrealbox fullstop com " (sorry for the riddle but I get enough spam as it is!)
Thanks
karelm
-
As an aside, who in their right mind would design a lovely weight with the most amazing detailed canes, that you cannot apreciate without a magnifying glass, and then put an amaturish cane depicting the letter "P" slap bang in the middle of it!
Oooh I know that one, Perthshire :clap:
-
Well done Frank ;D ;D ;D
Seriously if they (P) wanted to do it I recon the Chinese may want to do it too!
And while we on the subject Frank, if I have a weight signed by PMCD but the canes are reversed ie. the PMCD are a mirror image, how rare is that?
I still need photo's please folks!
-
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/glassie/miscel-44.jpg
it's not my weight
-
Ray, I am right in believing that's a Rose cane at the top? Any chance of a photo of that just to be sure?
-
hi Kev ,
it's not my weight but it's on ebay now
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Chinese-Millefiori-Paperweight-2-birds-in-garden_W0QQitemZ220081438069
-
I believe it is a rose cane...and another was sold earlier today that looks very similar. Item: 220078813441
It had to be part of the same run. I recon that blows the bird cane as a signature, it may still be a possibility to use the "double bird" as an identification for this factory (if we ever get to the bottom of this) but i recon it is no more than a normal cane. There is still hope for the flower cane as a signature. Thanks for the info RAY.
Cheers,
karelm
-
Quirkycool is Anne EB, a GMB resident, perhaps if you're nice to her she might take another photo