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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: Ivo on July 08, 2008, 02:24:36 PM

Title: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Ivo on July 08, 2008, 02:24:36 PM
Just bought my third item in this glass. A previous attempt at identification did not yield anything, but with a constantly moving crowd and ever changing insights, I thought I'd give it another spin.
The base colour is amber - except the one on the left has a high Uranium content and shines like mad under UV. The other two items do not. Decoration is schwarzlot wavy lines combined with transfer (the Breughel figures swilling beer on a stool), cold enamel floral (the decanter with the 1930s shape) and hot enamel heraldic (the curious shaped ashtray).

As the technique changes, it may have been in production for a longer period. The Breughel figures suggest Belgium, someone else whispered "Wmf" - but so far it has everybody stumped. Closest living relative may be "Napoli" glass as described in Revi, but never sighted in the real world....

help!
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Frank on July 08, 2008, 02:40:31 PM
Interesting, sort of thing usually lumped in to the Bohemian category, why not?
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Frank on July 08, 2008, 03:14:43 PM
They reminded me of something and started going through the pile of HO catalogues, I don't know if you looked through them? 1938 includes decorated amber crackle glassware that was imported to UK.

Fairly useless info I suppose without knowing from where!
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Glen on July 08, 2008, 03:39:27 PM
Ivo, I am going to send you some photos that show a decanter with similar decoration. There are labels on the glass identifying the item. It looks very similar to yours. I am sorry that I can't post the photos here as they are not mine and I don't have permission to share them publicly (but I do have permission to share them privately).

If the info on the labels is useful, please feel free to post that in this thread. It is only the photos that I don't (yet) have permission to show.

G
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Frank on July 08, 2008, 03:41:08 PM
Also appears with a very vaguely similar vase in a 1940's catalogue but undecorated.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Ivo on July 08, 2008, 04:17:29 PM
Glen that is fabulous information. The item with very! similar decoration you showed me is a Kord decanter made by Borocristal with a cottage industry? decoration, which focuses the area of research. It also narrows down the time frame as Borocrystal operated 1948 to 1974. I have come across Kord before, when researching a fancy handmade bottle which turned out to be made by ZBS. So - Borocristal is a most likely answer to three questions.  :hiclp: :hiclp:
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 01, 2008, 07:37:57 PM
While looking for something else, I came across a 1930s Palda tumbler in amber with a horseman and painted crackle. Collectible Bohemian Glass 1915-1945 Truitt and Truitt. Don't know if it's relevant or not. I can scan it for you if you want
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Ivo on August 01, 2008, 09:04:01 PM
That would be fabulous Christine!
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 01, 2008, 09:23:42 PM
On its way  :)
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: krsilber on December 28, 2008, 12:41:04 AM
For what it's worth, and just in case Ivo is lurking, I found another example of a decanter in a similar vein (http://cgi.ebay.com/ARTIST-SIGNED-Czech-Enameled-Iridescent-Glass-Decanter_W0QQitemZ390018544009QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item390018544009&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50).  Signed "Handpainted by Borokristal, Czechoslovakia" - so maybe not a cottage industry decoration?  Or would they sign it like that if it was made for them?  And what's with the spelling?

(Seller says 90 years old.  Whatever!  This seller drives me up the wall, always making false claims based on bad guesswork.)

...Oh!  And  yet another (http://www.goantiques.com/detail,czechoslovakia-decanter-sku,70254.html)...this time the signature of the artist is legible - O. Gartner.  Same spelling of Borokristal with a "K".  Huh.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Anne on December 28, 2008, 03:40:00 PM
K instead of C is perfectly normal in Eastern Europe, so Kristal instead of Crystal is correct. (Just as Carl and Marcus are spelled Karl and Markus in EE.)
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Jindra8526 on December 28, 2008, 04:39:10 PM
Both wrong. Kristy and Ann as well.

1. Czechoslovakia was/is in Central and nod Eastern Europe :-)
2. The factory name was "Borocrystal" - so C not K Ann :-) and "Y" not "I" - Kristy :-)

On October 1945, a Decree on nationalisation of large industrial enterprises was declared; subsequently in 1948, a national enterprise Borocrystal associating 55 original smaller plants and decorating workshops, and national enterprise Umělecké sklo came into being. In 1953, both two companies together with glassworks Borské sklárny were consolidated; thus, a new company named Borské sklo was founded.


To the piece I would also support the oppinion that this piece has been fabricated in Borocryctal, painted probably by  O. Gartner.

Simmilar pieces are not rare here, mostly decanters with glasses, painted are horseman, ships, dancers on cracked background.

Jindrich
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: krsilber on December 28, 2008, 07:09:53 PM
Hey - I was just copying what was written on the glass!  That's why I thought the spelling was peculiar.  I neglected to point out that it was also with an "I" instead of a "Y," true...an error of omission, though I did notice it.

Quote
...fabricated in Borocryctal
Now who's having spelling problems? ;D ;)  (Jindrich, I'm giving you a hard time, teasing you, pulling your leg...you have to expect that some around here! :) :) :))

Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Anne on December 28, 2008, 08:42:41 PM
And if we're being really picky, my name is Anne not Ann!  :P
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: krsilber on December 28, 2008, 09:51:46 PM
I almost said something about that, but couldn't tell if Jindrich was joking...Kristi
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: glasswipe on December 28, 2008, 10:15:30 PM
Hi,I remember this topic being discussed before as I had a large vase from this series.I do not know how to link it up but the date was Aug 15th 2006 and the title was Breughel uranium.Maybe someone can find the link up.
I have since acquired a tumbler in this style but can't remember what is depicted on the front and it's out in the garage at the moment and it's too cold to venture out.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: KevinH on December 29, 2008, 12:14:15 AM
The URL to the previous message is:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6787.msg57841.html#msg57841
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Jindra8526 on December 29, 2008, 10:49:48 AM
Not at all, Kristi and Anne, Jindrich is stupid old man and missing letters is his typical handwrite style  >:D
Sorry about it, the point is that Borocrystal is the name of company and don't ask me why....


Just a question, is it really uranium glass? Did you test it under UV?
I must check my simmilar piece...

Jindrich
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: krsilber on December 29, 2008, 10:09:48 PM
In the original thread Ivo said the only place you could see it glowing was on the cut rim.  I wonder whether he might have been seeing the glow from manganese.  That can sometimes be quite strong when looking at something like a rim.  But he would know what uranium glass looks like.  I wonder if it's stained amber, and that blocks out the uranium glow somehow?  Odd.  Too bad he's not around to explain it.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Cathy B on December 30, 2008, 10:48:46 AM
In my experience, very fine uranium pieces sometimes only show at the edges. When this happens, the edges are still bright enough to differentiate from the standard magnesium glow. Crown Crystal used magnesium in green and clear glass, as well as uranium oxide*, so I'm familiar with both effects. Christine has seen even more of the glowing stuff than I have, so she'd be able to confirm or deny.

Presumably this is because the uranium particles of a fixed density in the glass need a certain thickness before the glow is visible. When you're looking at the piece edge on, you see the angle at which the glass is thickest. Just a guess, of course!

Mod: * in citron yellow, and various greens and blues
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 30, 2008, 12:48:48 PM
I think Ivo was talking about the item in natural light. Amber uranium glass does not tend to show the green glow on the curves so easily in daylight. Shape and glass thickness make little difference under a UV light. I am positive Ivo knows what a uranium glow looks like!!
Quote
except the one on the left has a high Uranium content and shines like mad under UV
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Cathy B on December 30, 2008, 01:35:49 PM
I'm pretty sure he does, too. Here's the effect I meant - 'scuse the chips. It glows much more on the edges.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Cathy B on December 30, 2008, 01:46:34 PM
And here, for contrast, is the manganese not-so-glow, on the base of a clear carnival comport.

Edit: just to make clear, this is for posterity, not for Ivo's or Christine's benefit. The point was that it wasn't something Ivo was likely to mistake.

Edit 2: Also I wouldn't imagine Ivo's vase to be stained amber, either.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: glasswipe on December 30, 2008, 06:44:16 PM
Hi Krsilber and CathyB, If you follow the URL link which Kev H has so kindly replaced from the old thread.Go down to Glasswipe comments and click the second photo you will see it "glowing" I took two photos one under UV blacklight conditions and one without.Hope you find this helpful.Kay
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: krsilber on December 30, 2008, 09:17:48 PM
(Just to clarify, Glasswipe's photo links are in Ivo's post, Reply #4 in the other thread (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6787.msg57841.html#msg57841))

Cathy, the piece in your first photo is uranium, and that's an accurate photo of the glow?  What color is it in daylight?  It does seem strange that the whole thing doesn't glow.

I've heard that light emitted by uranium doesn't travel very far through glass (this needs to be confirmed before counting on its accuracy), which would account for the fact that it glows with an intensity not proportional to glass thickness. 

I agree that it looks like Ivo's piece isn't stained (and that he'd know what uranium glass looks like).  That's interesting that amber uranium pieces don't glow as strongly.  Some glass components absorb certain wavelengths of light, iron among them.  Iron in sufficient quantities is an amber colorant - I wonder if that is playing a role.

Another photo for comparison.  All the pieces are colorless (the one at the top has an amber stain that glows bright orange).  The jar on the right is Heisey; almost all clear Heisey glows bright yellowish green due to high manganese levels, and thicker glass is more intense than thinner.  The comport on the bottom shows how cut edges of thin glass can glow brightly when the rest hardly glows at all, even when you're not looking through a lot more glass at those edges.  Weird optical effect.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Cathy B on December 31, 2008, 03:23:00 AM
(Just to clarify, Glasswipe's photo links are in Ivo's post, Reply #4 in the other thread (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6787.msg57841.html#msg57841))

Cathy, the piece in your first photo is uranium, and that's an accurate photo of the glow?  What color is it in daylight?  It does seem strange that the whole thing doesn't glow.

Definitely uranium - it even glows under UV in full fluorescent light. It's very fine glass, with the slightest tinge of green in daylight. If you look carefully you'll see that the whole thing actually is glowing, just not nearly as brightly. It's the colour and intensity which gives it away as uranium - even in broad daylight, but with the UV on it, you can see the glow. But heck, just to prove it, I'll see whether I can rustle up a geiger counter.

Actually the effect is similar,but less pronounced, on all my uranium glass. Here's a tiny portion of my uranium glass taken under UV but in daylight conditions - note the colour is more intense in the areas of pattern.

Anyway, glasswipe's photo of her Breughel piece shows a glow worthy of a nuclear reactor. Ivo's is likely to be the same.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Cathy B on December 31, 2008, 03:43:58 AM
Also, Kristi, note that the colour of your Heisey piece is quite different.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: krsilber on December 31, 2008, 04:36:09 AM
Sorry - I didn't mean to suggest that Ivo's piece (or yours) wasn't uranium glass, and you're right that Heisey's glow is a different color.  I meant to contrast the effects, and also look at the optical properties of a cut edge.  Sigh.  I don't think I'm doing it very well or explaining myself very well, I should just butt out.  I seem to be doing a poor job of posting lately.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Cathy B on December 31, 2008, 07:15:12 AM
No worries at all - I probably wasn't explaining myself well either* :-) It is interesting to see the different effects on the various edges though, isn't it.

*we've got MIL coming tomorrow, so I'm a little frantic! Wish me luck.
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Jindra8526 on December 31, 2008, 09:02:57 AM
Well I have checked my Borocrystal piece under the UV, it is definitely not uranium glass.

Just another comment, I am really stupid when I did not mention that at original Ivo's picture is national emblem - Czech Lion with two tails with Slovak's doubl-crucifix at heart - this emblem was valid from 1918 -  1961 (with interuption during WWII) .
see http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%C3%BD_znak_republiky_%C4%8Ceskoslovensk%C3%A9

So I am sure that this piece is Czechoslovakian and almost sure that Borocrystal.

Jindrich
Title: Re: amber/ uranium with antique-ish decoration
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 31, 2008, 12:02:47 PM
Just to clarify Jindrich is talking about emblem on the ashtray, which is also not uranium glass