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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: glvr on November 16, 2012, 08:57:06 PM

Title: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: glvr on November 16, 2012, 08:57:06 PM
Completely new to this, I'm wondering how to identify genuine Whitefriar items.

I've seen some which have a large bubble as well as the smaller ones - and I think they're genuine.

But I've also seen some which don't appear to have the large bubble - and I'm wondering if they'r enot Whitefriars.
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: RAY on November 16, 2012, 11:29:16 PM
as far as i know it's only the ruby red ones that dont have the large bubble in the centre ..... anyone know why this is?
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: glvr on November 16, 2012, 11:57:08 PM
Ah... thanks.

It was a ruby one that I'd seen minus the large bubble. This suggests that it might be genuine then - or are there other manufacturers?
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: daveweight on November 17, 2012, 01:13:16 PM
Ray Annenberg told me that there was an additional shift glassmakers could work as overtime and on one occasion Ron Wilkinson was working this shift and making these Ruby bubble weights - and at some speed to earn a bonus-  but Ron forgot to put the central bubble in and when he reaised this he told the other glassmakers of his error and from that point on they all left the central bubble out of ruby weights BUT those Ruby weights made before this incident did have a central bubble in.
Hope this clarifies things
Dave

 
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: glvr on November 17, 2012, 01:20:46 PM
Thanks, it does.

Since first posting, I'd searched and read that it was harder to do the big bubble on Ruby - but I've no idea whther that's true.
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: daveweight on November 17, 2012, 01:36:13 PM
I am sure it is no harder to put a bubble in a ruby paperweight than any other colour but there are ruby weights around with the central bubble.  I believe the glassmakers at Whitefriars were paid an overtime rate plus an additional amount depending on how many pieces they made and in his efforts to make as many weights a possible Ron forgot to put the bubble in and the rest is history
Dave
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: stew2u2 on November 18, 2012, 09:14:05 PM
When you know how easy it is to put a bubble in a paperweight its hard to believe they just stopped . are the bubbles controlled or just all over the place. controlled i mean in lines
stew
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: chriscooper on November 19, 2012, 12:28:54 AM
Been following this with interest  Dave, and if it didn't come from such a good source it could be the start of an urban myth ;D
The 9308 were around from the '40s and probably thousands were made and trust me the ruby without the larger central bubble are extremely rare. A few of the other colours made including early sea green and sapphire do appear from time to time without the central bubble but the vast majority have the central bubble.
Also another theory that's been mentioned  is it was harder to put the central bubble in a ruby one? and because of this and the density of the colour meant you could not see the bubbles very clearly anyway they were omitted?
So to sum up, the vast majority of ruby were made without the central bubble and the vast majority of the other colours were made with the central bubble.
Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: glvr on November 19, 2012, 01:24:52 AM

...trust me the ruby without the larger central bubble are extremely rare.

...So to sum up, the vast majority of ruby were made without the central bubble and the vast majority of the other colours were made with the central bubble.

The first bit seems to contradict the latter. Please, which is correct? (I think the first line has a typo and should read 'ruby WITH the larger central bubble are extremely rare'.)
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: chriscooper on November 19, 2012, 09:28:48 AM
Sorry it was a late night :)
The 'theory' they were made on an overtime shift could explain why the odd one in all colours turns up without the larger central bubble but not why ruby very rarely turn up with the central bubble
So to sum up, again ;D of the the thousands of ruby that were made over the years very, very few were made with the extra large central bubble, yet of all the other colours that were made over the years the exact opposite appears to be the norm very few were made without it.
Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: pooleandpaperweights on November 19, 2012, 09:47:05 AM
So, is a ruby weight with bubble worth more than one without?
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: daveweight on November 19, 2012, 11:36:43 AM
To clarify this situation, ruby weights WITH a central bubble were made prior to Ron Wilkinson leaving the bubble out but I have only ever seen four of these. For years after Ron's ommission ruby weight were made WITHOUT a central bubble and if anyone sees Ray Annenberg I know he will confirm this
Dave
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: chriscooper on November 19, 2012, 02:46:16 PM
Not disputing the fact Dave that the information Ray gave that 'fatty' made the ones without the large bubbles for the reason you state but look at it logically and it doesn't make sense? Ruby, post war was one of the most popular colours so if it was that simple they should be loads of them around along with the rest of the colours complete with the central bubble and by your own admission there are not. I myself have probably only seen 3 or 4 compared to 100s in other colours over the years and by the same token have not seen many apart from ruby without the bubble.
To clarify there are very few ruby with the central bubble and very few other colours without so surely logic dictates there must be other reasons why so few are actually around do the maths and it doesn't make any sense one contradicts the other surely?
Loads of twilight examples with the central bubble but very few without
Loads of Ruby examples without the central but very few with.
Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: glvr on November 19, 2012, 03:51:28 PM
There were two ruby-and big-bubble versions sold recently on Ebay - and at what seems a low price:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WHITEFRIARS-RUBY-CONTROLLED-BUBBLE-PAPER-WEIGHT-9308-/261122697037

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Whitefriars-Ruby-Paperweight-/321017359949

I bought what seems to be a darker one (no big bubble) - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160797295583? - it's so dark that you can barely see the bubbles even when held up to the light.
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: chriscooper on November 20, 2012, 11:03:31 AM
Hi, the darker ones were made with a ruby core as opposed to a flint core maybe earlier ones? not sure but maybe another reason why the larger bubble was omitted 'cause you can't see it anyway.
Did you buy one of the two.
Don't really keep up with Whitefriars sales now, though it is a good time to buy but dealing wise sadly died a death over the last 4 years. I can remember 5 years ago buying every piece of W/f that came up knowing it would sell, at one time I sold nothing else, now unless it's something special I don't even pick it up though the textured range and the millefiori weights still do well so too some of the rarer colours.
Chris
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: glvr on November 20, 2012, 12:05:21 PM
No, I didnt get one of those two - and wish I had, but I only started to get into this in the past week-or-so.
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: stew2u2 on November 20, 2012, 01:34:30 PM
have they all got the ground pontil as i have seen some called whitefriars without
stew
Title: Re: Whitefriars bubble weights
Post by: glvr on November 20, 2012, 01:53:26 PM
have they all got the ground pontil as i have seen some called whitefriars without
stew

Here's a pic of the bases of ruby one I bought, and another arctic blue(?).

The ruby is darker than it seems in the pic.