Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: serafin on October 10, 2011, 05:49:25 PM
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Can anyone help me ID this lamp,thank you.
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another picture,thanks.
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Wow, one of the most amazing lamps I have ever seen. On top of that an incredibly complex construction, Very high end for when it was made.
I would like to see a lot more pics, details of inside, best non blurry close-ups you can manage please, hinges, if present from both sides, entry and exit for fitting. Check very care fully for a foundry mark, could be small and well concealed.
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p.s. Are you in US?
While I need to see how the glass was made and fitted, the metalwork is probably the key here.
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Thank you Frank, i live in mexico city,i have alot of pictures but i can not upload them because maximum attachment size allowed is 125 kb,and i dont now how to put them on this forum.
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tomorrow morning I will try to upload more photos
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another picture on this url
http://subefotos.com/ver/?5c6e757d16d894aab360064146063f01o.jpg
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more pictures on this URL. http://subefotos.com/ver/?567331eb09151209997bde512bbb9c9fo.jpg
http://subefotos.com/ver/?5704a44abc16a4eb1e2952a8cfa77854o.jpg
http://subefotos.com/ver/?c3f1fad68e5fcf2288c4d0b5b591d16co.jpg
http://subefotos.com/ver/?4add4415f98bc44c16b810b291991df1o.jpg
http://subefotos.com/ver/?159353a5aa8600ca8344d536c49879c8o.jpg
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Thanks for all the pictures, very much a WOW piece and after studying all the images... more WOW.
I am going to need some time to really study them but my initial thoughts are American Art Nouveau but probably made in the early 1920s. Very unlikely before 1910 and not likely as late as 1930. The glass was made in special moulds. and with all those castings, a lot of work.
Can you see if the yellow lozenges have been glued to the opal panels, or if they are stained/enamelled. One of the red fruits appears to be clear glass at the edge, is this the case?
Did you find and markings on the metal parts, would be inside or on one of the many edges.
Unfortunately the supporting metalwork has had the original patination polished off, it should be the same colour as the rest of the lamp, and I would have expected with all that work a cast link or machined brass chain, but they do break easily so being replaced is not a big deal.
This is likely to be a very valuable piece and if it can be linked to a major designer even more so.
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Thanks Frank, the yellow lozenges have not been glued to the opal panels,its only one glass with 3 colors white,blue and yellow. yes one of the red fruits it have clear glass at the edge, I could not find any marks on the lamp, but I'll keep looking.
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Gosh. That is stunning!
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So all the colour is enamel on opal. Are the red fruits and green triangulars also opal glass?
I really need to find some of my lighting books... (still crated from a relocation) my initial instinct on this was Frank Lloyd Wright but starting to have doubts... other important names would be Handel, Wilkinson and then Generic Chicago (Tiffany, very unlikely) as well as many others. The problem is that the bulk of all of their work was using flat stained glass panels and better ones still fetch 4 figures. A piece like this would be much less common and thus harder to be sure of source as finding another might be impossible.
Do have an inch by inch search of all the metal castings for a foundry mark, it should be there somewhere.
My main concern is the quality of the holder casting, its coarseness is what pushes me to an after 1915 date, plus of course shades for electric light earlier than that are few and far between. Additionally the internal fixing suggest a date circa 20s to me although my knowledge is mostly with English work. Had the holder been finer cast and with original patina I would thinking converted gas shade... which is still possible but few gas burners would fit that hole and then the other end would be open too and the red filler a later addition. Does that the red filler on that bottom finial totally match the fruit colour. It looks different in the photo. It could be that the bottom was fitted to the gas pipe and then the burner added - so a converted gas shade is not impossible but I feel unlikely.
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Thanks Frank,I think that the red fruits and green triangulars are also opal glass.to me it looks that it is the same glass,also all the red fruits have some white on the edges,and one have some more. The ceilling cap,i think is broken,and it supoused to be a large tube going down to the globe,maybe for hide the elictric cord,i realy dont now,tomorrow i am going to look for the marks,i hope that i find something.
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:angel: :angel:
Woweeeeeeee!!!!!!!
angel2
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Serafin - do you know anything of the history of this lamp?
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This lamp belonged to my grandmother, my family own this lamp for over 60 years, thats all i now.thanks.
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Another photo.
http://subefotos.com/ver/?678e948be7e357bd56dd491d3f11d7eco.jpg
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Unless some recognises this it will not get a quick answer, takes time to track down such unusual items.
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Ok Frank ,i will wait,and hope you can tell me good news ,thank you,
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Hello Frank,i found this mark on the lamp,at first i thought that it was a number 3,but it might be a letter E,here are some pictures,one is original, but you almost can not see the mark,I'm sending another modified pictures so you can see the symbol,thanks.
http://subefotos.com/ver/?3a1eb44eeceec76cfe62d387b2e9174fo.jpg
http://subefotos.com/ver/?08a458d226a855b567cf51cab101bc2eo.jpg
http://subefotos.com/ver/?b10b4333415d46525843b9bb1861f429o.jpg
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Well done, keep hunting might be something on the other piece. This might just be a mould number but could prove useful at some point, it does confirm the metal is bronze.
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Thanks Frank,i think the casting on the globe is cooper,and the parts for hanging are bronze,i also think that the number 3 is for matching the lamp when you opened and then closed because it has two number 3 one in each half of the lamp,unfortunately i couldn't find another mark on the lamp.
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It is probably all bronze, it was normal to copper plate and patinate (c1900s-30s). The hanging has had this polished off at some point, possibly due to it become unsightly, but it can be restored.
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I did eventually find someone who used the back tiling approach used in your lamp, Tiffany, but it would seem not very often and always marked Tiffany Studios. One example I found an image of was also using opalescent glass but the metal 'frame' was made with bronze wire and not cast. I should imagine that the sheer cost of producing in this way would deter many. I would suggest that your lamp is thus inspired by Tiffany but made by someone else who deliberately added no foundry marks. While I am still thinking US origin I would be open to it having been made elsewhere.
I suggest that you send a few pictures to one or more of the major US auction houses that specialise in Tiffany as one of these may well have crossed their paths before. Were it Tiffany and with of course the extra quality it would have had a value of over $20,000 in the 1980s - yours will obviously be worth a lot less but at least you can dream of if it had that stamp on it ;)
If you get any news please let us know. I will look in my lighting catalogues when I can get to them and see if I can find it or similar.
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Thanks Frank,i will send some pictures to auction houses,IL let you now if something came up.I appreciate everything you've done for me.
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Hello Frank,i send some pictures to an expert on tiffany lamps and they told me this.
The differences in your lamp and an authentic Tiffany Studios lamp include all of the following: Wrong designs that Tiffany never used, wrong type of glass, wrong shape of the shade and no markings or incorrect markings or signatures. As you can see on my web site, all authentic Tiffany Studios lamps are signed. It will say "TIFFANY STUDIOS NEW YORK" with a number if the shade is leaded.........
We have to keep searching Frank,maybe some day we found out ho made this lamp.Thank you.
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Try some more and tell them first you know it is not Tiffany,,,
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I posted a second follow-up reply to Frank on a U.S. board, but I know he's busy & might not have seen it. Closest I could come was my wife mentioning we had seen somthing very similar about 7-8 years ago we went through an period of design home just 3 miles from us & wife pointed out (and after she did I then remembered) that there were three of this type of hanging globe caged glass fixtures (very close in design to the one shown)in the home & it was largely untouched from its completion in 1909. Style was Morroccan & all 15 of the wall sconces according to the brochure were Quezal, but neither of us recall any info on the hanging globes, but that may be another possibility. Ken
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update
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One day it will find a maker, there cannot be many about but it is not a one-off either.
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Thank you Frank,yes i hope some day i will find the maker.
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Maybe some one can help with id.
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Someone help ID thanks..
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Never give up :-)
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Someone ????
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Sorry moderator.......I inadvertently reported Frank's post......probably due to my excitement as seeing this old thread!
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No Reported Post message came through, but you are forgiven anyway. ;D