Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: mrvaselineglass on May 01, 2007, 12:49:33 AM
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I need some info from our British experts. Is this a spoon warmer or a toothpick holder?
http://www.vaselineglass.org/lotussmall07.jpg (http://www.vaselineglass.org/lotussmall07.jpg)
The glass is about 2 3/8" from the top rim to where it meets the silver ball, where the stem fits into the ball opening.
I saw a similar one on ebay, and they referred to it as a spoon warmer, and could not find a good definition on the web as far as what makes a spoon warmer different than a toothpick holder.
My guess is that this is a Richardson piece, as they were very big into flowers, and the uranium content is low as compared to glass that I know Webb made. Cyril Manley mentions the lower uranium salts content and that Webb increased it to make the glass brighter at a later date.
If anyone knows who made this piece, that would be an added bonus! The frame is only marked EPNS, each initial within a little circle.
regards
Dave Peterson
aka: Mr. Vaseline Glass
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Hi Dave, i doubt very much if this is a spoon warmer which were normaly made from metal (usually silver) and contained hot
water,they could range in size from about 6in to i think 10in.
When gravy was served at dinner a spoonwarmer was used to put the gravy ladle into to stop the fat from congealing as far as i know.
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Hi, I have one similar, mine is a modern piece bought from a top retailer in London, Thomas Goode - it's a salt and came with a tiny spoon. I'm presuming yours is the same size as mine, small? Incidentally, I would assume spoon warmers were ceramic (or metal as Sue says) not glass. If I can find my salt I'll take a picture and put it up on here (it gets used at Christmas then put away).
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No reason a spoon warmer should not be glass. Invariably they are angled and I always understood them to be used for individual soup spoons. I have only ever seen metal ones though but as they are not usually labelled with their purpose they could get described as something else.
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No reason a spoon warmer should not be glass. Invariably they are angled and I always understood them to be used for individual soup spoons. I have only ever seen metal ones though but as they are not usually labelled with their purpose they could get described as something else.
Ah OK, thanks Frank - well mine definitely isn't a spoon warmer because a) it's too small b) the glass is very thin and fragile and c) it was sold as a salt with a matching spoon and a pepper container. I'm not au-fait with spoon warmers I'll admit but I'd still guess that the one posted in this thread is a salt missing it's spoon.
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You are probably right, had not noticed the dimension! Probably too small to be a spoon warmer! I cannot find any around I must have sold them or they are still boxed away somewhere. But definitely a fair bit bigger than this item.
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thanks all!
there is currently an auction (that I can't bid on, as funds don't go as deep as the opening bid) that used that term and it looks a lot like mine, only this one is 6" tall and mine is 2" tall. very cool piece. any thoughts? spoon holder or something else? it is too big to be a salt or a toothpick holder.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170105704902 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170105704902)
apologies ahead of time if someone had this on their watch list (something I usually don't do). yes, the base of this is vaseline/uranium glass.
regards
Dave Peterson
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I would yours is for toothpicks or condiments and the ebay one is for spoons. Size apart, the ebay one has a supporting lip to stop the spoon from flipping out
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Does anyone know what MY piece was called originally or what it would have been marketed as? I think we have it narrowed down to toothpick holder or open salt with spoon. I am going to put this in an upcoming book, and am trying to be accurate. thanks!
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Dave — I've checked Silber & Fleming. There is nothing exactly like it, but it is, perhaps, worth noting that shell-shaped items are always described as spoon warmers in metal, and flower holders or components of flower stands in glass.
I don't see how it could contain enough hot water long enough for it to function as a spoon warmer.
And I think it is too complicated for a salt.
My first reaction on seeing your photograph was that it was a lovely miniature flower holder or epergne. I can visualise these being sold to the public singly, or in sets of six, one for each place setting, together with a matching elaborate table centre. Another more obvious use is in the Lyons Corner House coffee shop setting as a miniature posy holder to decorate the table for two, a custom still kept today, albeit rather less elaborately. The handle on the one on eBay convinces me that it was for the coffee shop setting, either on land (fresh flowers) or on an ocean liner (artificial flowers). I wonder how many of these were kept as precious souvenirs of that beautiful and romantic first Brief Encounter.
There seems to be a general reluctance on this message board to consider commercial use, when it seems to me that that was where the bulk of the spending power was. I don't know why.
As you may have noticed, I am not keen on posting on topics that contain references to live auctions, nor on those that cite references to old authorities for whom "Don't know" was an unacceptable attribution. I seem to have broken both of my own rules here!
Bernard C. 8)
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Bernard
thanks for your input. It is always valued. I noticed that no one has made reference to toothpick holder, and these are sometimes labeled that way for sale in the modern market. I do not know what the usage was of toothpicks in Victorian England during that time period, so thought it was worth asking. From what I have read about the USA market, toothpicks were in favor during the 1880s-90's, but started to fall out of favor as being a bit "uncouth" or uncivilized after 1900 and have had a downhill slide since then. Posey pot seems like a bigger probability, though.
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Dave — I'd already dismissed toothpicks, as the angle seems to me to be too low. Pull one out and they could all come tumbling out. Not ideal in genteel company.
I had also dismissed a number of other possibilities, including a spittoon for grape / orange pips, or olive / plum stones, as those opalescent petals could get stuck up a nostril, causing severe injury. Another was a parking place for chewing gum, but this is, of course, traditionally on the bedpost overnight, so it can't be that. And it didn't seem to be capacious enough for peanut shells.
Bernard C. 8)
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Ahhhh, Brit humor! It takes a while, but yes, I eventually get it!
again, thanks for your help.
On a whim, I just decided to look in some of my toothpick holder books that I have and found my exact piece (same color, with opalescent rim, and the same metal stand) in HEACOCK'S book, entitled 1000 TOOTHPICK HOLDERS. He listed it as a British flower form, with an EPNS frame, and valued it at $175 when the book was written in 1977. I guess Heacock figured out how to keep the toothpicks from falling out!
Dave
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Dave — Apologies for the humour.
I've been thinking about Bill Heacock's book, and the answer lies in the title. Just imagine the conversation between Bill and his publisher.
"Well, Bill, do you have any suggestions for a title for your forthcoming book?"
"I quite like Glass Toothpick Holders of Europe and America. I did consider 981 Toothpick Holders, but it's not very snappy."
"Well, how about 1000 Toothpick Holders?"
"I can't — I've only found 981!"
"You will just have to include 19 nearly toothpick holders. I have every confidence in you."
"But I can't."
"Oh, yes, you can. No-one's ever going to check. Trust us, we know about these things. Right, that's all settled then. 1000 Toothpick Holders. Goodbye, Bill. Have a nice day!"
Bernard C. 8)
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Please, Bernard! Don't tell me this is another book I need to buy! ::) ;)
Seriously though, as Dave asked earlier in this thread, what exactly does define a 'toothpick holder'? ??? Could some / several of my collection of little ... er ... 'posy vases' in fact be toothpick holders? :-\ Did the Victorians really use toothpicks so much more than they 'used' little bunches of flowers?
Enquiring minds.... and all that ;)
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Leni — I would never suggest that a British collector or dealer invest in Bill Heacock's books as core reference works, unless you specialise in one or more British glass houses which exported extensively to the USA.
Apart from this, they are a generation out-of-date, and so should be read with considerable caution.
On the plus side, Heacock's works were always well researched from the US point of view.
The two I own were bought cheaply from a second-hand bookshop.
I suggest you borrow an example or two from your library before investing.
As for toothpicks, I don't really know, but I suspect that more items are labelled toothpicks in the USA than should be, because of Heacock's two books (there was a sequel). In Britain and Europe the opposite might hold true, i.e. some toothpicks might well not be recognised as such.
The situation here in the UK is complicated even more by the differing rates of Purchase Tax on tableware as opposed to flower vases and ornaments. So, rather like the multitude of vases sold as celeries, there may have been posy vases sold as toothpicks, mustards, salts, or spoon warmers!
Bernard C. 8)