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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: paradisetrader on September 25, 2005, 04:43:20 PM

Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on September 25, 2005, 04:43:20 PM
Pamela Wessendorf's excellent PRESSGLAS-PAVILLON http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/ has this peach pink vase (photo 1)
 in the Val St. Laurent section.

Tony Hayter's site http://www.1st-glass.1st-things.com/gallery-deco/ has an amber version (pic 2) in a squatter V shaped footed form ; marked "Czech"
I have  a small one which is like Tony's and large version which is different again but which also seems to be in the same pattern (pic 3)


(http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/vasen/02640.gif)   (http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/vasen/02640.jpg) [
Are they indeed all the same pattern ?
VSL or Czech ?
Thank you
Peter
(ps I am not an anorak)
(but I am an enthusiast)
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Leni on September 25, 2005, 05:20:35 PM
Well, I suppose I have to get mine out then!   :wink:

Here's my version :  http://tinypic.com/dz9csp.jpg  I had always thought 'Czech' until I saw Pamela's site where she ID's it as Val St Lambert, so I'm curious to know, too  :shock: :?

Leni
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: pamela on September 25, 2005, 05:56:52 PM
Peter and Leni,
may I post that I linked it to
Val St. LaMBERT not *urent
Writing this from home, I cannot justify. I'll go and find out tomorrow in my museum what made me classify it as such - maybe the posies!
Best wishes, Pamela
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Anne on September 25, 2005, 10:04:55 PM
Peter I think Pamela's pink, Tony's amber and your small blue are all from the same stable. The pattern is the same, and the feet whilst being different styles have the same number of sides.  I think your larger blue vase is from a different maker - perhaps copying a popular pattern and changing it just enough to avoid accusations of plagiarism - i.e. alter the foot a bit, change the wing sizes and position, scallop the top a little. It still looks close enough but it's not the same.

Leni I can't tell from your pic if there's enough similarities or differences - can you post some extra shots, side, top view, etc.?
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Cathy B on September 26, 2005, 05:00:23 AM
Hi Peter, Pamela and Leni,

This pattern turns up with great regularity in Australia, usually as this bowl here:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ELEGANT-GREEN-GLASS-BOWL_W0QQitemZ7352377768QQcategoryZ23QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Depression-Glass-Amber-Sugar-Bowl-Milk-Cream-Jug_W0QQitemZ7353270036QQcategoryZ29573QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Which either means that whoever made it exported it in great quantities to Australia, or that Crown Crystal copied the pattern.  :?  :roll:  :?  

Same with this jug (from another thread):

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Stunning-Bright-Blue-Footed-Creamer-With-Flat-Handle_W0QQitemZ7352141074QQcategoryZ29573QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem




OT:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Green-Depression-Glass-Gravy-Jug-Saucer-VGC_W0QQitemZ7351577160QQcategoryZ29573QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These little gravy boat numbers always go for a lot of money. Does anyone know why?
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Leni on September 26, 2005, 08:22:44 AM
Quote from: "Anne"
Leni I can't tell from your pic if there's enough similarities or differences - can you post some extra shots, side, top view, etc.?

Well, it's stuck down firmly with white-tac at the moment (to protect it from rampaging cats  :roll:) but I do have this picture of it from a while ago, before the conservatory where it now lives was finished http://tinypic.com/dzv4pj.jpg

Is this any help?  Peter saw it when he was here visiting and was of the opinion that it was very similar to his.  

Leni
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on September 26, 2005, 10:05:56 PM
Thank you all for contributions

This pattern seems to have quite a lot of variation.

Yes my large vase has a completely different foot to the others. Also the wings or fins are more triangular on it.

I also note that the green bowl which Cathy posted is different to Leni's bowl which has frosted sections ( the only piece which has ....so far ! and I can't tell if the green bowl has wings or not.

It's pssible, as Anne says, that there were two (or more) makers using very similar patterns.

But it's alos possiible, especially if the pattern was a successful one (which seems possible given the number that this group has thrown up) that variations on the theme could have been introduced by the same maker over time.

I'm eagerly awaiting what Pamela has to say as I assume she ID'd it from some source material with may throw more light on the subject.
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Anne on September 26, 2005, 10:46:49 PM
Leni thanks, I'd say your bowl is probably from the same stable as Peter's smaller vase not his big one.
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: pamela on September 28, 2005, 07:34:35 PM
Peter, I do regret there are no marks on my items with this pattern - thus it is 'just presumably' VSL
Received three further VSL catalogues today, unfortunately the 1935 Luxval is still missing  :(
I shall investigate further, themoreas NOEMIE bowl already appeared in 1915 (was a quick catalogue find today!)
Perhaps you may also google 'Luxval' : http://users.cybernet.be/darvani/LUXVAL_1935_03.htm
best wishes,
Pamela

PS: Anorak: Sure I do know about it but never expected this word being known in other languages than INUIT and German  :P
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on September 28, 2005, 10:30:58 PM
Thank you Pamela especially for the link to the Darvani VSL collection
Which lead me to VSL's site (English version) http://www.val-saint-lambert.com/vsl/index.php?page=home&lg=en .
The company was reformed in 2003.
I have found very little else by googling.
We look forward to hearing any more news
Title: Mine is marked
Post by: glasswipe on September 29, 2005, 07:02:46 PM
Hi,I have a couple of dishes in this pattern all in uranium green mine are marked on the foot czecholslovakia.Hope this is helpful.Kay
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on September 30, 2005, 01:53:51 PM
Kay
That is most interesting.
Could you please post pictures so that we may compare ?
It would seem even more likely now that similar patterns were made by more than one maker, though we still need more eveidence of the VSL connection.

For anyone interested in the top quality lead crystal by VSL see here http://www.mallettantiques.com/featured_item/val-saint-lambert/val-saint-lambert.htm
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on October 01, 2005, 10:53:39 AM
I am beginning to doubt that these are VSL uness Pamela can come up with something.
Looking closer at the Darvani site there is a section on recognition http://users.cybernet.be/darvani/Val_Saint_Lambert_Luxval.htm
with examples which says :

Quote
Les Luxval sont "généralement " signés en relief dans le fond. Il peut être écrit "Val St Lambert Belgique" comme sur la photo n°7 ou parfois uniquement le mot "BELGIQUE"  (photo n°8). Pour les productions plus récentes, simplement "VSL"  (photo n°9) et également "Val Saint-Lambert Belgium" .


Tanslation
Luxval are generally signed on the base in relief. It may be say "Val St Lambert Belgique" as in pic #7 or just "BELGIQUE" as in pic #8. For more recent production simply "VSL" or equally "Val Saint-Lambert Belgium".

The "generally" does leave space for some unmarked I guess but it would seem that none of the pieces shown here are marked otherwise this would have been noted. I have re-checked mine and nothing.

So the only marked ones we know about so far are those mentioned by Kay / glasswipe.
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Kay (Glasswipe) on October 01, 2005, 04:24:23 PM
http://tinypic.com/e6u4hu.This is the picture of Czecholsloavkia on the base of the bowl.The picture of the bowl will follow as I can't get two pictures to stay on one posting.Kay
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: glasswipe on October 01, 2005, 04:28:58 PM
http://tinypic.com/e6u5cm. Hope this is helpful.Kind regards,Kay
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on October 01, 2005, 07:36:34 PM
Thank you Kay
Very Interesting
The czechoslovakia mark seems very proiment ! and on the side of the base which I haven't seen before

It certainly seem to be related to at least some of the items alreadt shown.
The wings are a similar style to all except my large one.
Does the base have 8 sides ?
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Glen on October 01, 2005, 08:10:41 PM
Quote
on the side of the base which I haven't seen before


Peter, take a quick trip to my website and look at the article on Inwald's Jacobean. There a photo of a tumbler that shows the RD number moulded along a thin part of the side of the base. Amazingly fine work to have done that!

Glen
Title: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: glasswipe on October 01, 2005, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: "paradisetrader"
Thank you Kay
Very Interesting
The czechoslovakia mark seems very proiment ! and on the side of the base which I haven't seen before

It certainly seem to be related to at least some of the items alreadt shown.
The wings are a similar style to all except my large one.
Does the base have 8 sides ?


Yes it does indeed have 8 sides :D
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on February 22, 2007, 01:55:34 AM
Further confirmation with a different mark
http://cgi.ebay.com/a929-ART-DECO-10-CZECH-Smoke-Glass-VASES_W0QQitemZ3161114315

Peter
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Anne on February 22, 2007, 02:47:29 AM
That's useful to see, thanks Peter.  One day we might get to the bottom of these patterns. :)
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Tony H on February 22, 2007, 06:10:42 AM
Hi Everyone
An interesting topic this pattern turns up here in NZ mostly amber but I have seen other colors.

This topic also reminded me that one of our very keen posters, Leni, is not around anymore does anyone know why??

Tony H in NZ

Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Jay on February 22, 2007, 07:44:37 AM
A foot note on VSL.

The percentage of VSL that is marked is quite small (less than 10% in my experience).
It is also found with the mark 'Fait en Belgique' (Made in Belgium) .

To the best of my knowledge all glass marked with Belgium is from VSL, There may have been other factories around at the time, but they did not put a pressed mark into their products.
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Frank on February 22, 2007, 08:40:07 AM
Leni, is not around anymore does anyone know why??

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,9029.msg76338.html#msg76338
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Tony H on February 22, 2007, 09:44:01 AM
Frank
Thank you I missed that one hope everything goes well.

Tony H in NZ
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Sklounion on February 05, 2008, 06:35:25 PM
Carl Stölzle, Hermannshütte, 1930s.
Thanks to Kay (Glasswipe) I now have to compare letter stamps, as this positive id, and the image of your mark now suggest that an anonymous glass cup may be from the same source.
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 05, 2008, 08:25:04 PM
These two topics need linking as they both have the same answer, thanks Marcus http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7359.0.html (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7359.0.html)
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: pamela on February 05, 2008, 09:04:21 PM
I am so happy! Finally we know!
THANK YOU MARCUS!  :clap:
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Sklounion on February 05, 2008, 09:47:17 PM
It is a pleasure,
regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on February 06, 2008, 04:36:12 AM
Well done Marcus

My original pictures are still there in Anne's Glass Gallery
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-42
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-709
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-704

Anne felt at the time that these two were by different makers. I am open minded. From all the different items posted here it seems that there were many variations on this pattern.

Here's a pic of an old Stolzle label
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190069039507
Peter
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on February 06, 2008, 05:50:15 AM
Here is a history of Stolzle (+ Oberglas)
http://stoelzle.com/en/corporation/about_us/history/index.html
 
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Sklounion on February 06, 2008, 09:34:00 AM
Hi, Peter,
Please, do you still have images of the smoke-grey pressed vase with the twist, that you bought a few months ago?
There are similarities with the perfume spray in the listing.
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Leni on February 06, 2008, 10:10:44 AM
I'm very pleased to see this finally solved, as I have one of these, too!

Thank you, Marcus!  :clap:  :-*
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on February 06, 2008, 01:47:41 PM
Marcus I'm baffled as to what you could be referring to. I have searched my photo archives to no avail. I haven't bought any glass since Terry left us last September. I rarely buy pressed unless I'm sure it's Sklo Union and the price is right, so hardly ever and smoke is not a favoured colour.

The perfume base reminds me of 2 of Terry's pieces however. Perhaps it's one of these you were thinking of.
Here they are.
http://picasaweb.google.com/muscadale/Unidentified/photo#5051407312705897010
http://picasaweb.google.com/muscadale/Unidentified/photo#5051407712137855554

Thank you Christine
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Sklounion on February 06, 2008, 02:29:02 PM
Hi Peter,
Thank you the box and the vase seem very similar, to the perfume in the listing, and it was these two pieces I was asking to see.
Thanks again,
Marcus
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: paradisetrader on February 06, 2008, 07:51:47 PM
OK so we were thinking along the same lines then. The similarity of the base isn't sufficient though I guess, to assume the same manufacturer.
I just found the second one in my bedroom. Terry must had sent it to me and it's there for photographing.
Terry had another similar but larger which we used to call the "pregnant" vase.
The first one we used to call the "toilet".

It seems extraordinary that a company the size of Stolzle (with up to 7 factories did you say ?) could have so little recognition.
 Pete

Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Sklounion on February 07, 2008, 06:38:36 AM
Hi Peter,
I think in part the lack of info regarding Stölzle, may be due to the company being heavily involved in packaging/container and pharmaceutical/medical glass. The pressed glass from Hermannshütte, seems to have been secondary to these two main types of glass.
As to their factories, they had at least 8 or 9 plants in Austria, Hungary and Bohemia, and certainly one of the Bohemian factories, built just after the turn of the 20th century at Chlum u Trebon, stood idle for long periods, before being leased to Vaclav Hrdina, of Stepan Hrdina a Syny in the early 1920s.
Regards,
Marcus
Title: Re: Winged Deco Pressed : VSL or Czech ?
Post by: Cathy B on February 01, 2009, 03:19:29 PM
Just to complete this thread, Glen shows here (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7359.msg108975.html#msg108975) that this pattern was also made by Polish factory Stolle Niemen.

Haven't looked  :ac1:, but I'm assuming the dimensions and range for the Carl Stölzle pattern will be on Marcus' CD.

Mod: link corrected!  ;D