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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: BJB on September 30, 2006, 05:17:33 PM

Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: BJB on September 30, 2006, 05:17:33 PM
Well. I sure would like to find one of these

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180033115997

Have got it in my watch list to find out the final price!

Its a lovely dish but........................ :shock:


Barbara
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Sandra on September 30, 2006, 08:46:37 PM
WOW! Still 6 days left.  :shock:
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: pamela on September 30, 2006, 09:38:17 PM
PLEASE try to read 'square' and back what theses bidders on this normally buy - again there seem to be a lot of people just hmmm shift?
JMHO
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: pamela on September 30, 2006, 09:46:03 PM
ars... : no glass buyings visible
...marko: no glass buyings visible, obviously collector of bottle openers
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: pamela on September 30, 2006, 09:50:54 PM
positively seen:
thorntriple5 as collector of carnival
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: pamela on September 30, 2006, 09:56:24 PM
ru..su...
no glass interest so far

please judge yourselves
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Sklounion on September 30, 2006, 10:38:03 PM
Could we be looking at shill bidding here?
Regards,
Marcus
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Carolyn Preston on October 01, 2006, 12:25:58 AM
Sorry, you guys seem to be speaking in code.

What is ru :?:  su :?:  ars :?:  

But the same people seem to be outbidding themselves. Is this what you mean by shilling :?:

Okay, I admit it. I really have no idea about bidding on e-bay.  :oops:

Carolyn
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Glen on October 01, 2006, 08:41:15 AM
I'm just back from the UK Carnival Glass Convention (which had THE most amazing display of Brockwitz Carnival....ever. More on that in due course).

I can't comment on the bidding for this Dugan "Butterfly & Tulip" bowl, but it has undoubtedly taken a lot of "hits". That is to be expected. It is a rare and lovely item that usually sells for a very healthy price. I've witnessed examples taking $2000 to $3000 at auction in the USA - and I believe exceptional examples have sold for even more.

If you'd like to see the original plunger and mould for this item, it's shown here.

http://www.geocities.com/carni_glass_uk_2000/butterfly_n_tulip.html

Glen
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: vintagerose on October 02, 2006, 02:32:58 AM
Here is a great link for this item to help you decide if it is authentic.
Hope this helps you  :D

Vintagerose
http://www.ddoty.com/butterflytulip.html
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Glen on October 02, 2006, 06:44:11 AM
Quote from: "vintagerose"
Here is a great link for this item to help you decide if it is authentic.
Hope this helps you  :D

Vintagerose
http://www.ddoty.com/butterflytulip.html


And there was I, mistakenly thinking that's exactly what my article did..........

back to the drawing board and into the corner I go   :cry:  

Glen
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Della on October 02, 2006, 06:54:03 AM
Quote from: "Glen"
And there was I, mistakenly thinking that's exactly what my article did..........


It does...... and it is also great to see the actual plunger.  :P

Now for maybe a dumb question to you, Glen, but one I am nonetheless going to ask.  :oops:
How did they make the seemingly flawless ruffles that decorate the edges of these bowls? I see no tool marks, yet the plunger is as round as a pudding dish.
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Glen on October 02, 2006, 07:17:22 AM
Hi Della  :D

That's an excellent question - I hope I can give you an answer that will do it justice.

After the plunger had been removed from the hot glass, the bowl would have been "snapped up"  - i.e. picked up by its collar base using a tool called a "snaps" (similar to a punty). While hot (very hot) it would have been first shaped (if desired) and then iridised - with a possible visit to the glory hole between times.

Holding the hot bowl by the collar base, using the snaps, the handler would have lowered it onto a specially shaped apparatus that would crimp the edges.

I wrote an article on fine crimp edges (a very tightly ruffled edge) in 1999 that the late Frank Fenton kindly helped me with. He explained it like this (I'll quote him):

"the item is taken up in the snap to be removed from the mould - then, when still hot and malleable, it is pushed down onto the open bottom section of a shaped apparatus known as "the crimp". The top part of "the crimp" (which is hinged in two sections) then closes down onto the piece to form the Fine Crimp edge."

The crimp would have been operated by a foot pedal when Carnival was first made, though Frank told us that later on they "got smarter". A relative, Jim Fenton, developed a way of utilising pneumatic power to operate the apparatus.

You can see some fine crimp edges in this article - plus more on how that particular edge was made.
http://www.carnivalglass.org/education/candy/index.asp

I think I'm right in saying that some shaping would also have been done by hand, and any tool marks could have been fire polished out by returning the item to the glory hole.

Glen
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Della on October 02, 2006, 12:32:17 PM
Thank you for the explanation and the link, Glen.  :)

There is also some other great info available there too, which I have been reading.  :wink:
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: vintagerose on October 02, 2006, 12:58:51 PM
So sorry Glen, didn't mean to make you sad  :oops:


VR
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: BJB on October 08, 2006, 03:11:21 PM
Well, it certainly made a healthy price!   :shock:
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Glen on October 08, 2006, 03:15:07 PM
It certainly did, and I am pretty sure the bidders were absolutely genuine Carnival Glass dealers/collectors (and no, it was not me - I've got one  :shock: )

Glen
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: BJB on October 08, 2006, 04:14:45 PM
Glen, I hope it was a bargain  :wink:

Does anyone know how many were made? For that price they must be as rare as hen's teeth  :D
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Glen on October 08, 2006, 04:21:59 PM
My Butterfly and Tulip? Well, it has some history. We bought it toward the end of a Carnival Convention in the USA many years ago, from a couple who had decided to sell all their worldly goods and go off into the sunset on a Harley.

We bought it for a reasonable price, but it was still a lot of money. It's a stunning piece. The Butterfly and Tulip bowl may be found in a more pulled up version, but mine (and the one in the eBay auction) is more flared, which shows the pattern very well. Another thing is that the pattern is often sideways on (strictly speaking it is the shaping that is sideways to the pattern) so it does not look quite as magnificent as those (scarcer) examples where the tulip and butterfly are right in the middle, and upright.

It's a big, heavy, imposing piece of glass that's hard to find.

I've no idea how many were made - it's just not possible to come up with those sort of records for Classic carnival. But I can tell you they are very hard to find - and it's even harder to get one with the pattern / flare just right.

Glen
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: BJB on October 08, 2006, 06:27:29 PM
Glen, that is a wonderful story, and I had no idea that there are good versions as well as bad.

I think glass is like music, when you here a certain song it brings memories flooding back, and its the same when you look at a favourite piece of glass. It brings back so much, sometimes from years ago. There are some bits I would never get rid of, even though my tastes have changed, as they have so much history tied up in them.

Barbara
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: pamela on October 08, 2006, 06:43:51 PM
as far as I can see from the winner's profile: it's his first purchase of carnival since very long or the first time at all. Normally buying bottle openers and calendars.
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Glen on October 08, 2006, 06:49:28 PM
Pamela - the buyer has other eBay IDs. I know exactly who he is - and he buys / deals / collects a lot of Carnival Glass. I've known him for many years - he's absolutely bona fide (and he also collects bottle openers  :? )

Glen
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: pamela on October 08, 2006, 07:46:47 PM
that's good to read and know, Glen. Thank you!
Title: How much! Carnival dish
Post by: Cathy B on October 09, 2006, 02:13:05 AM
Can I nominate this topic for archive, for Glen's wonderful description of how the shape was formed.

Cathy