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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => USA => Topic started by: Keencollector on November 01, 2013, 09:00:30 AM

Title: ID coal bucket salt? - ID = Continental Can Company, USA
Post by: Keencollector on November 01, 2013, 09:00:30 AM
This amber coal bucket with wire handle was sold to me as W.H. Heppell but I cannot find this in any of the books I have.  Sowerby have a version with wire handle but pattern is different.  Maybe Davidson or
Greener ?????

 I could find only seven registrations for Heppell - Rd. Nos. 374437, 370524, 359806, 354935, 351191, 346543 and 338286-7 between August 1879 to December 1881.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: agincourt17 on November 01, 2013, 02:16:44 PM
Heppell registered RD 346543 on 17 February 1880. Jenny Thompson describes it as “(coal scuttle shape)” but I don’t think I have ever seen a marked example.

An online search of the summary from TNA simple reveals the design as having “no subject”.

Perhaps Paul S. has the particular design representation for RD 346543 among his collection, because that may well be definitive evidence one way or another. .

By the way, Jenny Thompson page 18 lists a total of 16 design registrations from Heppell between 26 August 1874 and 24 November 1882, (the ubiquitous coal wagon, fish jug, shells and dolphin series among them) but only the coal scuttle shape seems a likely candidate for your coal bucket.

Almost certainly not Sowerby (at least on the evidence of extant catalogues and pattern books). I suppose it could be Davidson or Greener, but this is the first time that I have seen anything resembling your coal bucket (especially in that amber glass with a wire handle).

Intriguing – thank you for showing it.

Fred
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: Paul S. on November 01, 2013, 04:21:50 PM
Hello - according to the National Archives the image which corresponds to Hepple Registration 346543 is very different to the piece posted here  -  see the attached picture.
Sepia photographs again, so some lack of definition, and apologies for the girl sporting the latest knitware - I really have no idea how to 'crop' - which is what I assume is needed to isloate the coal scuttle.

The 'Register' gives brief descriptions for the majority of Registrations (for the 1842 - 84 period) but in this instance there is simply a blank, so it's very probable that Jenny Thompson would have looked at the same picture posted here, otherwise the lady would not have known it was a scuttle. :)
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: agincourt17 on November 01, 2013, 04:55:08 PM
Thank you again for your prompt response and invaluable service, Paul.

I think this is the first online representation of RD 346543, and the GMB is proving to be a groundbreaker for collectors and researchers of British pressed glass and collectors yet again .

Not that different from the Burtles, Tate & Co. coal scuttle salt RD 510504 of 29 April 1907, but then again, how many real variations on a Victorian or Edwardian coal scuttle theme can there be?

Still leaves no definitive attribution for Margaret’s coal bucket though. Would Heppell really have gone to the trouble of producing a coal bucket from an unregistered design when it already had the coal scuttle?

Never mind, at least should I ever come across an example of the RD 346543 for sale then I ought quickly and easily to recognise what it is now (and snap it up quickly because it is obviously rare – and consequently likely to be underpriced assuming that no other GMB members are there first).

Fred.

Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: jsmeasell on November 01, 2013, 05:56:44 PM
There is also a Sowerby item that is similar in shape with a diamond point motif on the exterior and a wire handle. "Rd 98215" (18 April 1888) is quite clear on the inside of my transparent blue example.
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: agincourt17 on November 01, 2013, 07:53:53 PM
Is it possible for you to post  photos of your Sowerby coal bucket for comparison please, James, preferably showing the mark?

Fred.
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: agincourt17 on November 01, 2013, 08:22:34 PM
Doctor Google has come up with a slightly greyish green version of Margaret's coal bucket at
http://coinsandmoreonline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=266

Described as a “…cool vintage ashtray was made by the Continental Can Company in the early 1960s, shortly after taking over Hazel Atlas in 1957. Their 3 C's logo is on the bottom.” Accompanied by 2 photos.

A clear flint version is shown at
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/484559241127205666/

Another is shown attributed to Hazel Atlas at
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/484559241127205666/

and an amber one like yours at
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Glass-Coal-Bucket-Scuttle-Vintage-Ash-Tray-/220872580668

They all seem to be in the United States.

Fred. 
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: agincourt17 on November 01, 2013, 08:58:00 PM
Is this like your Sowerby coal bucket, James?,  because I see that Jenny Thompson
(page 35) describes it as “imit. cut coal bucket…” .

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1191413

From the US again, I notice.

Fred.
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: Sid on November 02, 2013, 02:38:15 AM
Is this like your Sowerby coal bucket, James?,  because I see that Jenny Thompson
(page 35) describes it as “imit. cut coal bucket…” .

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1191413

From the US again, I notice.

Fred.


Fred - this Daisy & Button piece was made by Adams & Co. of Pittsburgh not Sowerby.

Sid
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: Sid on November 02, 2013, 02:43:50 AM
Hello

The Sowerby scuttle is shown on page 28 of Thompson's "The Identification of English Pressed Glass"

Sid
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: agincourt17 on November 02, 2013, 09:28:13 AM
Thank you, James, for the ID of the Adams & Co. coal scuttle / bucket.

Thank you, Sid - so it is! Perhaps I''m just 'scuttle blind' after seeing so many other pressed glass coal scuttles / buckets,  but I can't seem to find it on the Thistlewood Sowerby CD-ROM catalogue sets - the swans and shoes etc. are there on page 34 of the pattern book XV (1895), but not the pattern 1970 coal scuttle.

I notice that the illustration in Thompson does not note it as a regsistered design (but neither does it mention any of the other patterns as being from registered designs either), so it looks as if I can now link the Sowerby pattern 1970 coal scuttle to James's RD 98215 of 18 April 1888. 

Fred.

Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: Keencollector on November 02, 2013, 01:06:53 PM
Thanks all for information and photo's.   And such a quick response.  I had been looking for two weeks but in the wrong country.

Seems once again I shouldn't have believed a seller.  I didn't expect the manufacture date would be that late and also from U.S.A.  Is cute though.
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: Paul S. on November 02, 2013, 01:18:47 PM
not sure of the origin or location of people's purchases of these pieces, but as a suggestion and a way to avoid later problems, might it be an idea if a request for manufacturer attribution was made, prior to purchasing.           Perhaps this might be more appropriate for ebay purchases than the local antiques centre. :)
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: Keencollector on November 02, 2013, 01:36:15 PM
You're 100% correct again Paul.  As it was only a few pounds I took a chance.  I thought the pattern looked familiar and detail looked Victorian to me at the time.  Thanks for your assistance and wise words.
Title: Re: ID coal bucket salt?
Post by: mhgcgolfclub on June 17, 2014, 07:34:02 PM
Picture for reference of Sowerby coal scuttle Rd 98215

Roy