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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Germany => Topic started by: rocco on November 27, 2010, 01:50:37 PM

Title: Glass vase "Leichlingen" ID = Gral-Glas, Leichlingen Atelier
Post by: rocco on November 27, 2010, 01:50:37 PM
Hi,
some years ago I bought this rectangular glass vase (height 18cm), brown streaks in clear glass, label reading "Leichlingen Germany".
In the book "20th century factory glass" it says Glashuette Leichlingen was aquired by Gral-Glas in 1959. So is this a Gral-Glas vase made in Leichlingen?
Could you help me with designer, date of production etc.?

Thank you very much,

Michael
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: Frank on November 27, 2010, 03:05:11 PM
Nice piece, is the interior divided or is the piece coming up trailed?
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: rocco on November 27, 2010, 03:25:35 PM
Hi Frank,
yes, interior is divided (I love this style -- very nice for twigs :) )
I have a 60ies Claus Josef Riedel vase in the same style...

Michael
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on November 27, 2010, 03:54:22 PM
What a nice piece. I hope they made more so I can find one too...

I've looked up what I have on the Leichlingen glashütte: I know from the Düsseldorf museum page that this type of label was used at least in the 50s. If I have read correctly, production at Leichlingen was halted in 1964.

That would put your vase in the 1950s, up until 1964.

The only designer I have found so far with a connection to Leichlingen in that time period is Hans Theo Baumann, who also has been named in connection with Gral Glas in Dürnau, but that doesn't mean there weren't any others. So, not enough to attribute it to someone, but perhaps useful as a means of further investigation.

The link for the online catalogue of Düsseldorf's glas museum is this one: http://www.duesseldorf.de/kultur/kulturamt/dkult/mkpglas-museumsobjekte/
You can search for designers or glasworks with the 'suche' function on the left.

I found the timeline for Gral glas where Leichlingen is mentioned in 1959 and 1964 at this link: http://www.duernau.de/db199.html

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: rocco on November 27, 2010, 04:05:46 PM
Hi Astrid,
thank you so much for your reply!
I have searched the Düsseldorf's glas museum website, and the only vase which comes close (although round, not square) is this one: http://duesseldorf.emuseum.net/code/emuseum.asp?style=text&currentrecord=111&page=search&profile=objectsde&searchdesc=gral&quicksearch=gral&action=quicksearch&wasaggregate=1&style=single&currentrecord=112 (http://duesseldorf.emuseum.net/code/emuseum.asp?style=text&currentrecord=111&page=search&profile=objectsde&searchdesc=gral&quicksearch=gral&action=quicksearch&wasaggregate=1&style=single&currentrecord=112)
I have seen some similar vases on ebay in different colours.

The book "20th century factory glass" mentions Günther Hofmann as a designer for Gral-Glas from 1970 onwards, and that some of his designs were manufactured at Leichlingen. (Which would mean that glass was produced at Leichlingen after 1964?)
But google doesn't give further information...

Michael
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on November 27, 2010, 04:37:06 PM
The book "20th century factory glass" mentions Günther Hofmann as a designer for Gral-Glas from 1970 onwards, and that some of his designs were manufactured at Leichlingen. (Which would mean that glass was produced at Leichlingen after 1964?)
But google doesn't give further information...

Michael

Ah Michael, welcome to the world of German glass collecting, a path for the pioneers, almost no travel guides available... :)

Fortunately, a book on Gral glas is in the making, and according to Amazon Germany will be published early in 2011. That may provide some more answers on Leichlingen. Let's keep our hopes up!

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: rocco on November 28, 2010, 05:25:20 PM
Thank you, Astrid! (Nice collection, by the way :) )
I am curious if the new book will answer my questions...

At least I think the style of my vase suggests that it was made after 1964.

Michael
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: rocco on February 20, 2011, 08:30:45 PM
I will give this a polite bump (as the Gralglas experts seem to be around :))

Any new ideas regarding this vase and Glashütte Leichlingen, from somebody who has studied the Gralglas book?

Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on February 20, 2011, 08:38:55 PM
I haven't received my copy yet. I pre-ordered at Amazon.de, hopefully it isn't delayed.

But incidently, I just bought the very same vase in an ebay auction, remembering it from your thread, so I'm just as committed to finding out :)

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: rocco on February 20, 2011, 08:52:08 PM
Congratulations!! So now we are both very interested in researching this vase :)

Saw the vase on ebay, was unlabeled if I remember correctly?

Edit: look what I just found (you had posted the link before, but I haven't seen this one): http://duesseldorf.emuseum.net/code/emuseum.asp?emu_action=searchrequest&newsearch=1&moduleid=1&profile=objectsde&currentrecord=1&searchdesc=Schale/Vase&style=single&rawsearch=id/,/is/,/233241/,/false/,/true (http://duesseldorf.emuseum.net/code/emuseum.asp?emu_action=searchrequest&newsearch=1&moduleid=1&profile=objectsde&currentrecord=1&searchdesc=Schale/Vase&style=single&rawsearch=id/,/is/,/233241/,/false/,/true)
Doesn't help very much, but interesting to see that it came in different shapes...

Michael



Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on February 21, 2011, 06:20:01 AM
Ah, I hadn't seen that... I really should go through that database more often. Though it doesn't help if the people at the museum do not know much more than we do (actually, that's something that makes me sad. Germans should be more proud of their 20th century glass and devote a bit more time and resources to it to catalogue it properly).

And yes, mine was unmarked, but I remembered it from this thread. Another one for the 'Oh no! That's not Murano!' display I'm planning for next month :)

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on February 22, 2011, 08:22:48 PM
Hey Michael, are you a completist? I just saw an oval version of the same vase being offered on ebay.de (wrongly attributed of course)... (in my case, I'll just stick with the one example I already have :) )
http://cgi.ebay.de/BOHMEN-1960-MASSIVE-AUSGEFALLENE-XL-VASE-RARITAT-/270710421786?pt=Glas_Kristall&hash=item3f0799391a

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: dirk. on February 22, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
Just a list of facts about this seller:
- his items fetch remarkable prices
- his feedbacks show he´s got a lot of quite regular buyers, especially in his earlier days
- he´s got either problems with his buyers and has to relist numerous items a few weeks
   later, or he´s got a lot of his items twice and thrice
- his feedback list is private concerning the sold items
- he´s got good skills in photo editing
 >:(  :-X
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on February 22, 2011, 09:14:02 PM
Well - lots of manipulators around like that, sadly. Then again, while getting a good vase for under 10 euro is a nice bargain, if that happens too often it won't keep sellers in business, and I don't expect them to practically give away their stuff.  I wish people would simply use the clearly visible bottom reserve instead.

I have bought a few items off him, and paid a price I would consider a reasonable auction result given the item. Then again, I never expect to get anything good for less than 10 euro :)

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: rocco on February 22, 2011, 09:51:43 PM
Astrid, thank you very much for the hint! This oval shaped one is nice as well, but I will stick with my rectangular one.
I have got already too many areas I collect (Czech, Finnish, Riedel), so German glass will only be bought if I come across a nice piece for a nice price.

BTW, whenever I see the buy-it-now-prizes some ebay sellers ask for their items, I wonder if these really sell? For instance a Jachmann WMF vase for around 200 Euro if I remember correctly, or the Hlava cut vases like the one I posted a few days ago, most around 300 Euro  :o
 
Dirk, you are right that this particular seller has nice pics.
And funny descriptions: "Massive Fantastische XL Vase" ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on February 23, 2011, 05:38:39 AM
BTW, whenever I see the buy-it-now-prizes some ebay sellers ask for their items, I wonder if these really sell? For instance a Jachmann WMF vase for around 200 Euro if I remember correctly, or the Hlava cut vases like the one I posted a few days ago, most around 300 Euro  :o

And they don't even look at each other a lot. I've seen the same Jachmann anywhere between 55 and 200 euro for 'buy me now'. I should think the 55 will sell eventually, the last two Jachmann pieces I bid on went around 50. But 200? Nah. Too many cheaper alternatives. Then again, some internet shops that somehow manage to exist ask that sort of prices as well. Some collectors with oodles of cash and apparently not enough time to look around might not be bothered by a high price like that.

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: dirk. on March 15, 2011, 09:13:59 PM
Wow, he´s got another one of these...  :spls:
http://cgi.ebay.de/BOHMEN-1960-MASSIVE-AUSGEFALLENE-XL-VASE-RARITAT-/280644562345?pt=Glas_Kristall&hash=item4157b82da9
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on March 16, 2011, 09:00:38 PM
Ah, finally my Gral-glas book arrived today from amazon.de. This vase is featured in them. It was made in 1972, in three varieties (a low oval, a higher oval, and this square one is my guess) and it has 'Atelier Leichlingen' as designer (sadly no further name). Apparently at the time, both Gral-Glas and Leichlingen were used as brands, but at this point in time the original division between which factory should do what had blurred already.

I still have to check out the CD ROM to see if that contains more info, but that will be for another day.

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: dirk. on March 16, 2011, 09:11:01 PM
Will you write a review, Astrid? The book is drop dead gorgeous if you ask me...  :thup:
I´ve found several of my suspicions confirmed and made a few amazing discoveries
as well.
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: Anik R on March 16, 2011, 09:11:32 PM
Astrid, could you give me the full title of the Gral-glas book please?  Thank you...  :kissy:
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: dirk. on March 16, 2011, 09:21:59 PM
http://www.libri.de/shop/action/productDetails/11441674/helmut_ricke_xenia_riemann_wilfried_van_loyen_gralglas_3422070133.html  :)
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on March 16, 2011, 09:26:08 PM
Will you write a review, Astrid?

Well, I can do a mini review now... For a full review, I'd have to actually read the text as well, right? Not that my German isn't up to it, but I'm usually impatiently comparing pictures to see if I turn up something new and put off reading the text until I am painstakingly trying to find more. I'd hoped to find my blue vase with protrusions as a possible Corona piece, but it doesn't quite match, even though it has style similarities.

It's definitely a good-looking and useful book to have, and well worth buying for people who like German glass from that period. In quality, it's quite similar to the Wiesenthalhütte book. It gives a good overview of different types of glass from different designers (Baumann, Wiedmann, Habermeier, Stadl, etc) in different periods, both from Leichlingen and from Gral-glashütte. And just as with the Wiesenthalhütte book, it comes with a CD ROM that I still have to explore, hopefully it's full of catalogues...

Here is the link at Amazon Germany, which contains some more info:

http://www.amazon.de/gralglas-Deutsches-1930-1981-Xenia-Riemann/dp/3422070133/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300310484&sr=1-2

Astrid
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: bOBA on March 16, 2011, 10:11:44 PM
Dr Ricke was kind enough to correspond with me last month about Czech glass. He mentioned, in passing for those interested, an exhibition (probably in Germany) running concurrently with the Gral glas book launch. If anyone can find a more detailed reference for it, it may be worth posting details to the events page of GMB.... I could not see it advertised there. He mentioned it had opened recently, so there should be time to see it...



Robert (bOBA)
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: Anik R on March 17, 2011, 08:34:46 AM
Astrid and Dirk, thank you for the links.  :)   I'll wait to see if the book appears in Empik (the largest book store chain in Poland). Although I can't read German, I'm hoping that the photographs will help me recognise more German glass... that would be heavenly.

 :hi:

Silly question:  Do you think there's a chance that the book will be translated into English or French?  :-[
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: dirk. on March 17, 2011, 08:50:31 AM
@Boba
The exhibiton is in Düsseldorf / museum kunst palast:
http://www.museum-kunst-palast.de/UNIQ130035151717301/doc4007A-page2.html

@Anik
My personal view would be that this book is worth it´s price just for the lovely pictures. There´s also an CD coming with it,
which contains quite some catalogues and brochures with a lot of material.
No idea wether there´s a chance it will be translated or not...  :)
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: Anik R on March 17, 2011, 02:18:09 PM
Thank you, Dirk.  I'll wait a few days to see if it's available to order from Empik.  If not, I'll buy a copy through one of the links above, or ebay.  :)


EDIT:  I decided not to wait...  I'm too impatient.  I've ordered my copy through Amazon and should get the book between the 26 of March and the 12th of April.  ;D
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: rocco on March 17, 2011, 05:00:08 PM
Astrid, thanks a lot for sharing the infos!!
Pity that this vase cannot be tracked down to a designer...

Michael
Title: Re: Glass vase "Leichlingen"
Post by: astrid on March 18, 2011, 12:17:54 PM
No designer, but there was a little more info on the CDROM that might be fun to share: this vase was produced both in a clear version, and this version with the cognac coloured streaks, in various heights (seems 20 cm is the highest one). According to the pattern lists, there also seems to have been a version with 3 spaces instead of 2. They had a picture of it somewhere filled with shells and other knick knack, apparently they wanted to market it as a multifunctional glass item. And there was a period price list on the CD ROM: it's original new price was 47 Dmark in 1972, that would be around 23 euros in todays money.

With all the inflation of the last 40 years, I think buying it for about that same amount in 2011 was a decent deal :)

Astrid