Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: rosieposie on July 31, 2008, 02:52:06 PM
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This listing is on eBay at the moment:
Dartington/Frank Thrower 1970's Textured Glass Vase Item number: 120283990551
I am interested, as I have 2 smaller versions and have seen others listed in the past. I have never been certain that mine were Dartington or Frank Thrower, can anyone identify it, and if so, was there a 'Pattern' name?
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These cactus-type vases are not Dartington (that's one of those ebay urban myths). Similar ones have been found in Ravenhead boxes and there is also the thought that they are Lasisepat. Do a board search on cactus. It's possible that they were marked by Ravenhead - it was quite a big brand in the 1970s
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I have one of these as well. Having read through the previous posts on the Finnish ones, the one I have does have a circular mould line on the base. The base is textured but a lot less than the 'cactus petals'. The stem bit is less textured than the petals as well. The petals (for want of a better description) are also different heights.
one at 16cm, 3 at 15.5cm, 1 at 15cm and the last at 14.7cm.
I love them.
m
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Thanks 'm', I was going to put a photo of my bowls on record, as they are smaller than the one I mentioned for sale on eBay. Do you by any chance have a picture of your one for comparison?
You mention some previous posts on some Finnish ones.....where can I see those? I have spent hours (literally!) looking through the posts, but keep getting sidetracked.....spent most of last evening on a detour round the Ronneby site! This glass collecting lark is addictive, isn't it?
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hmm at the mo I find myself incapable of working out how to post pics but mine is I believe exactly like the one you are referring to on ebay.
The thread on the smaller ones - if you type in 'six bowls' under search option, the first thread that comes up has smaller bowls that I think were attributed to Lasisepat, Finland?
m
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Wow! Yes!! These are exactly like mine!! Thanks 'm' so much! So they are Lasisepat then.
I always thought they weren't Dartington, and when I wrote to Caroline Blight, she sent me the following:-
This design has never been a standard production range for Dartington
Crystal and so I think your thoughts of it being Scandinavian could
possibly be correct. Having liased with Hilary again and consulted our
archive here there is no such design and so I am afraid I am unable to
give you any further information.
Regards,
Caroline
I will now send her the name of the maker, so that should she get further enquiries, she can tell them what they are.
What a fab bunch you all are!!
But there is more to come, wait till you see the oblong dish I am going to ask for help with!!!
Hold onto your seats!
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Six bowls topic is here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7042.0.html
M if you want pics adding and can't manage the resize, send them to me via email and I'll resize and add them in for you.
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:) thanks. I just thought I would add, in case this comes up again, that I think, although the link has gone, I remember the taller one was attributed to Ravenhead 'Flair' perhaps?
M
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Hi, just been on the Whitefriars website; listing 3096 in the 'Is it Whitefriars?', shows what is believed to be a Ravenhead 'Flair' piece. A flatter, stumpy, heavier piece than 'our stuff'.
I have found some 'Cactus' pieces listed on eBay, both UK & Australia, and on a website called 'H is for Home' , ( for those of us who remember the 60's/70's!). The website for Lasisepat, Mantsala, Finland is bereft of any useful information, so the mystery is still unsolved!
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Hi just thought I would add that I have bought another of these of a similar size today as my other. Similar size but not quite. The 'stem' is the same height and the width of the base at the bottom is too, but each of the petals of the vase are 1cm smaller in height than my other vase and the width is 1cm narrower when measuring from petal to petal. Other than that it is the same. It also has a mould circle on the base. Having been through the previous posts I do feel this is the same range as the ones posted under 'six bowls' and as the one Robbo posted a pic of on that thread or linked thread, with a label Lasisepat. I am just wondering why it would be one centimetre smaller than my other if it was from a mould?
m
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I suppose there could be several different moulds, each one cast from an original 'hand blown' piece?? Where did you find this latest one m? Boot fair or eBay?
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Just when we thought we had got this one safely wrapped up, someone comes along and throws a spanner in the works! :hb1:
I was looking under all Scandinavian glass to see if there was another of these incorrectly listed, when I found this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130253360190
I wonder who the helpful eBayer was who told them it was a Kosta Boda, Ann Warff piece? (How do you get the two little dots over the 'a' by the way?)
Hey ho! I don't care what they call them.....I just want a set, but boy do you have to work hard to find things on eBay! Before anyone tells me there is a seller with two for sale under the Frank Thrower title, I know, but he wants too much for them!!
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Rosie, I wonder if they have confused theirs with the known Wärff design as shown here:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2902 (the ä can be produced by holding down the ALT key and pressing 0228 on the number pad.)
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Rosie, I wonder if they have confused theirs with the known Wärff design as shown here:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-2902 (the ä can be produced by holding down the ALT key and pressing 0228 on the number pad.)
Yes or perhaps they're thinking of the Warff designed 'Sunflower' - as below:-
http://www.pips-trip.co.uk/sold-glass-archives/scandinavian-glass-1/showitem-BODA-SUNFGW.aspx
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http://www.c20c.com/glass/product5.html
hope that works?
m
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I have one of these vases and I was under the impression it was by Frank Thrower has anyone resolved the issue conclusively?
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I just googled Lasisepat and the entire result was either this thread or ebay does anyone have a web address for info on them? :D
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I have one of these vases and I was under the impression it was by Frank Thrower has anyone resolved the issue conclusively?
They're definitely NOT Dartington/Thrower - they don't appear in any of the catalogues and we've seen stickered examples from Laissiepat - that's pretty conclusive IMO.
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You are absolutely correct Pip, I have letters from the archivists at Dartington, confirming that these vases are NOT Dartington. Now, that is straight from the horses mouth, and was my main reason for 'carping on' earlier.
I enclose a copy of Caroline Blight's letter to me:
"This design has never been a standard production range for Dartington
Crystal and so I think your thoughts of it being Scandinavian could
possibly be correct. Having liased with Hilary Green again and consulted our
archive here there is no such design and so I am afraid I am unable to
give you any further information.
Regards,
Caroline."
Is that conclusive enough?????
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A pedant would argue on seeing that letter "maybe not for Dartington CRYSTAL, which was only formed in 1987, but we are talking Dartington Glass." So it that sense it's not an entirely satisfactory letter as we don't know if the archives go back any further. It's still NOT a Frank thrower design and is one of those ebay myths. The only things even vaguely like are the Hollywood and Etoile ranges
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Does anyone have any info on Laissiepat, or any links or a pic of any????
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Does anyone have any info on Laissiepat, or any links or a pic of any????
What is the correct spelling? Could it be Lasixxxx or Lasi xxxx? Lasi being Finnish for glass?
Ivo? Marinka? :)
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I wasn't going to get embroiled in this topic again as I felt I had said all I had to say, but just to complete the picture for smokerstill and aa, the spelling is Lasisepat (with 2 dots over the a), and they are made in Mantsala in Norway. Thanks to Robbo for this info in a previous link:
Six bowls - Kosta/Warff???
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 05:47:24 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: "Max"
After all this, someone'll probably come along and say these are Scandinavian! :lol:
Well - Nordic anyway!
I bought two similar dishes today, one with label.
Whole Thing
Label
Pip - these look flatter than yours, but the points look exactly the same. Looking at the auction for the taller one described as dartington, the points on that one look slightly different?
Having googled, I haven't found anything about the company.
The url for the pics is http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3335
This displays the bowl and label very well.
I have also seen photos confirming these facts in a modern glassware gallery on Google, but no longer have the link to that.
I have got 5 small bowls now, and still want another one of the small ones, and am looking for one of the large ones at a reasonable price......anyone out there got one to sell??
I think they are candle holders, not dishes or vases as they dont contain enough water.....just my summise though. The Scandinavians are VERY into candles.
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Thankyou rosieposie I will go searching :-)
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Old subject a bit of new info...Finnish glass forum # 5
http://designlasi.com/en/forum/lasisepat-mantsala#comment-3674
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Thanks for that :clap: I have two of these gorgeous 'vases' which I use as candleholders. Very pretty and stylish pieces.
m
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I think I should have put my message here, so here I go again.....forgive the duplicate!! (age?!)
I know this has been an old posting and we have all had a say in these 'candle holders', but here is a possible spanner in the works for us all to ponder on!!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180503770067
Perhaps they are Ravenhead after all??
Anybody like to comment?
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the new 20th century British Glass by Charles Hajdamach book has them listed as Ravenhead and states they were introduced at the Birmingham Spring Fair in February 1980.
page 222 plate 463.
m
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Wow! That is confirmation as well!! So how come there was one with a Lasisepat label on it?
The thick plottens methinks!!
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and here is Robbo's with the Lasisepat label.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-3334
m
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They're aren't identical; so perhaps the question is which came first.
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I remember it well.....in fact I still have the link recorded in my glass collector info.
So who made them???
Tell you what, I will let you know more if I win them OK? :thup:
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On page 350 of 20th Century British Glass, plate 736, Charles Hajdamach has a series of flower bowls attributed to Dartington, including this one of mine which long ago was identified on this board as being by Lasisepat.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-dCA163-is0/S-735oqNESI/AAAAAAAACmc/xT63G8A2dJ8/Lasisepat-Mantsala%20Finland.jpg)
I have another which is similar and clearly made by the same company.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-dCA163-is0/S-735WKXIBI/AAAAAAAACmY/ekXtE_dBePM/Cow%20Parsley%20bowl.jpg)
Now I am totally confused! Frank Thrower / Dartington or Lasisepat?
I'm watching this thread with great interest!
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That's a bad caption in the book, your top bowl is definitely neither Dartington or Nazeing. Robbo found a picture of a labelled one. Another error by Charles methinks. The Dartington in that plate are the Midnight bowl, the tallish narrow tealight holder and the large shallow bowl. The blue ones and the one below the midnight one are Nazeing. The other is Lasisepat.
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It will be interesting to see the differences between the two sets then - I hope you win them Rosie.
I wonder now if I have a Lasisepat pair or a Ravenhead pair (small ones) if they are different, and where does that leave the big ones then as in the 20th Century British Glass book, page 222, both are pictured and attributed to Ravenhead?
m
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Well. I have won them, :hiclp: and they come in a Ravenhead box, :clap: so as soon as they arrive, I will compare the other 6 that I have to see if I can spot the difference.....this is starting to sound like one of those magazine competitions!!
Perhaps I will photograph one of each, and let you all have a go at 'spotting the difference'.
Leni says he has two that are clearly made by the same company....interesting observation, but then if you look at the Nuutajarvi 'Pioni' bowls you could be mistaken for thinking they were the same maker or even Dartington.....so obviously the era they were all made in contributes to the similarities of those bowls.
Mine are much plainer, no fancy flowers on these. The bowls I am talking about are the 'pronged' ones, which have a big brother often called the cactus bowl.....not the ones you have pictured on this page.
I'll post a picture when they arrive, because if I remember rightly, one of you had one with a label for Lasisepat on it.
Trouble is, as we have discussed before, labels can be transferred from piece to piece, and even engraving names can be copied.....hey ho glass collecting, who would do it except us addicts??
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Hi Rosie, to avoid confusion (for me and anyone reading the thread in the future), I posted a link to Robbo's small cactus bowls further up on this link. Robbo's have a Lasisepat label on them in that link. I thought the ones you have bought in a Ravenhead box look the same as those and that was perhaps what was going to be compared?
m
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That's great, Tanks for that,'cos it was all getting a bit mixed up, I agree!!
See you all on the other link when these bowls arrive.
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I have a reference picture of one with a Lasisepat label on it as well.
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Ooooooooo! Anne, Please can you show it for us to see....it might help with the 'spot the difference' competition!!
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Anne - is your Lasisepat piece the same as the one illustrated in this thread, or the same as Robbo's?
Rosie, try a profile shot and see if that sheds any light.
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OK Cathy, I will send pictures of all angles, including profile as soon as they get here....and a picture of the box they come in...I have 6 already, and have always assumed the ones I have were Scandinavian Lasisepat pieces.
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I think the pattern on the bases may be a clue.
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I'll photograph that as well then..........all the ones I have at the moment are the same.
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On page 350 of 20th Century British Glass, plate 736, Charles Hajdamach has a series of flower bowls attributed to Dartington, including this one of mine which long ago was identified on this board as being by Lasisepat.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-dCA163-is0/S-735oqNESI/AAAAAAAACmc/xT63G8A2dJ8/Lasisepat-Mantsala%20Finland.jpg)
Sorry, I should have been clearer shouldn't I? :-[ It's Leni's one above which I have a reference piccie of with a Lasisepat label. (Can't post it to the board as it's not my image/copyright. I also have 2 other pics of different labelled Lasisepat items - again not my images, so I can't add them here.)
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I just noticed this on searching for something else
there is an attribution in the write up.
m
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/lasisepat-vase-finnish-pertti-kallioinen-/170483438738?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item27b19ad492
and here also
http://www.designlasi.com/en/forum/lasisepat-mantsala
I have to say one of the pics on this one looks like a short candleholder with long prongs :-\ but perhaps that's just my eyesight
m
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I think you should see if you can get confirmation of that on the Scandinavian board, as they don't come onto this board.
The comparison of the Ravenhead and Lasisepat versions is also important. One question; does the Ravenhead box actually say Made in England. It may have been a marketing arrangement. I can't think of any other Ravenhead items that are cast...
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Oooo, I think I may be in the wrong queue.....mine are not like yours Anne, mine are the cactus vases....like the eBay one.....(I gave that info to that seller!)......but I have never seen the shorter stem/longer pronged one, so should I be on a different thread?
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IMHO, since there is clearly a lot of confusion - even among glass experts, like Charles Hajdamach! - between Lasisepat, Dartington and Ravenhead items, it is acceptable to keep this as one thread. But maybe a moderator will decide.
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I think what we really need is a new thread with a link to this one that compares the cactus bowls from all angles. These are where the problem lies.
The flower bowls are a diversion and have all been identified.
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I think I was confused by it all as well and have probably added even more confusion now! Sorry folks! :-[
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Rosie, just wondering if your bowls turned up and whether or not they were the same?
I have bought two more of the short ones in the meantime. They look practically identical to my two other short ones, but I think the circumference of the base may be the odd millimetre wider and the prongs the odd millimetre shorter on one of them. That said, I would guess they came out of different molds and that difference would be acceptable. Other than that they look identical. So either mine are all Lasisepat or they are all Ravenhead.
m
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Hi m :hi: Yes, they are all here now, and I feel badly that I haven't shown them yet, but I PROMISE I will after this week end! :-[
Now, in the meantime, a seller on eBay listed this bowl as Italian.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290403543349
Leni, It looks the same as the one you pictured further back in this thread.
So firstly, have you still got it?
Secondly, has it got ITALY on the base.
Thirdly, is the pattern on the inside of the bowl or the outside surface?
Fourthly, is the pattern INdented or is it proud of the surface?
All important questions, because I am wondering if Lasisepat Glassworks sold the moulds to an Italian firm after they closed down, or, is this a naughty 'copy'?
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Funny enough, I just bumped into two of these grass patterned on a flea market both in transparent boxes with text "Made in Denmark" and nothing else ( -> more confusion !?) :-\
First I was thinking if the boxes were not original, on the other hand - there were two.
Secondly - I have this theory from a long time now. It seems Pertti Kallioinen has worked very much as a free lancer for so very many factories (Riihimäen Lasi, Muurla, Merilasi, LasiSepät...) that what if he only sold his designs so they still remain as his to be sold around? And that he has been very active in doing so?
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Did you buy them px? If so, can you answer any of the questions I posted.......it would be a great help.
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Sorry rosie, did not buy them and now I cannot even remember where it was I saw them to go and re-check. Poor me. :-\
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This thread started as a plea for positive identification of the Lasisepat Cactus Vase made in Mantsala........
Now I just want to swear and tear my hair out!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220851683439
Aaaaaaaaaaagh!!!!!!!!! :help: :hb2:
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Great, rosie! ;D
I can add: I found and took pictures of the grass patterned pieces, those I told about before, in addition to "Made in Denmark" there's a logo that looks like two peacocks facing each other although their tail is more like a squirrels in my eye.. Maybe someone recognizes the factory?
Oh, and there's a candle done directly in the cup, with the candlewick in the side.
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/04092011458.jpg)
And then, one with Humppila label.
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o470/pxxu/04092011459.jpg)
So now in this thread proof of Denmark, Finland and Italy. :o
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Well found px!! :rah: .......is the logo that's on the package also on the glass?
I've lost track of the number of different styles of glass in this thread....... :cry:
I think I will just stick to hot worked and mouth blown art glass in future.......it seems pressed glass can be made by anyone, anywhere.......please can we have a smiley for 'tearing your hair out'!! :cry:
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Hey that's brilliant both :sun:
So, I am pretty sure there was a cast iron id of the cactus vase to Lasisepat Mantsala on another thread. Here we now have the cactus vase in an original Ravenhead box with picture on. px your theory is gaining ground.
The little bowl you show px, two things strike me, firstly it doesn't seem quite the same as the one discussed (I have a few of these now somewhere so will go check and dig them out), secondly though, I do remember Robbo?? I think had one and his had candle wax in it I'm sure...maybe the 'original' candlewax then ;D
I shall have a check on my bowls again tomorrow and a search through for ids on other threads again to link them.
m
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I've emailed the seller to ask if there is any id on the box as to where the vase was made.
m
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The seller has very kindly replied. The seller says there is no question of identity, this one says on the box Made in England The Ravenhead Company Ltd Pyrene House Sunbury.
Curioser and curiouser. I guess that doesn't exactly mean Ravenhead made it although I assume they did, but it definitely means it was Made in England.
m
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Gosh, we didn't live far from there, it was Chubb Security and Fire Extinguishers when I remembered seeing it.
I wonder if it was just used for Company Addresses?? I always thought they were in Lancashire?? My box of Ravenhead Flair vases....same box, but the shorter version of the 'cactus vase' says, the Ravenhead Company Ltd. St Helen's England.
The thick plottens!!
What happened to Lasisepat, Mantsala Sweden?
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sorry Rosie, no time to look at the moment, however px I know has posted a detailed information on Lasisepat Mantsala on another thread which I will find and link to this one later.
m
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Hello m, I didn't mean it like that, I meant I thought we had got all this wrapped up that the 'cactus vases' were DEFINATELY made in Finland (I think I said Sweden, but that was an error!! Sorry) , by Lasisepat Glassworks in Mantsala?????????????????
Now it looks as though they are Ravenhead Glass, from St Helens. Lancs. It somehow doesn't sound so romantic now, and I've got dozens of them!!!!!! :help:
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http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7042.msg62049.html#msg62049
small labelled one from Robbo, labelled Lasisepat. I'm pretty sure that label can't have just been stuck on can it? who would relabel something with what is quite an obscure glass company by comparison to the big known ones.
m
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Oh m, you are clever, :clap: that is the thread I have been looking for for days!! :thud:
I have taken some pictures of my bowls and I think we should ask the mods to amalgamate these threads, or maybe I will post my bowls on that thread and add the eBay listing info as well......it looks as though they were Ravenhead all the time, and you know I don't trust labels.....never had....did you see my last reply to the IOW polar bear thread?
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And what about this one......... :usd:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280647278750
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Rosie, I think that label is genuine on the link I gave. I'll try and find some further evidence again to link Lasisepat and these vases and bowls. I think they must have been produced by both companies. Or produced under license here maybe.
With reference the small bowl you have linked to on ebay, it is being sold in Washington USA. Yes glass travels, but a Ravenhead vase turning up in Washington? I think it is more likely to be a Lasisepat export than a Ravenhead one....but stranger things have happened.
m
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Yes, m, I am quite sure Ravenhead did not export them in Finland either! :) Like in the thread on Designlasi's page (which is linked somewhere here) someone says these cactus type bowl are found all over here. I have ref pictures with labels.
There are now many designs/sizes discussed.
Cactus: lowest more like a star shaped and you could call them bowls, then a middle size with distinctively upwards protruding points of the kind there are in the highest, which is definitely not a votive but a vase ( Ravenhead box)
The other discussed models are two:
the upper of the messages with 2 pictures in this thread is more like a Flower and it is definitely sold here in Finland all over with LasiSepät sticker and in different colours.
Then the other: the one with a hay (or tree) pattern, which has been found with molded Italy, Made in Denmark-boxes and HUMPPILA sticker (not LasiSepät) In this pattern I have ref pictures in different models, larger bowls and plates too.
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Hi px, it looks as though it is going to be an eternal mystery then, because although the smaller round petalled votive type pieces have some sort of identification ie ITALY molded in the base, all my larger 'cactus' vases and shallower versions, have nothing to define the maker, except the two in the Flair box by Ravenhead. That pattern is called 'Lotus' on the pack by the way. So how will I ever know if the ones I have are Finnish, Danish or English? :huh:
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Yep, rosie, I suppose the origin of your particular bowls will be an eternal mystery as there are no marks and it seems they have been produced in many places. :-\
I still haven't seen the highest vase here of the cactus shape 'Lotus' but - I haven't been looking much.
However - I want to add just to gather information of them: I have ref pictures of the middle size in both blue and rosa colours with the LasiSepät labels. These colours are also found in the mentioned flower shape bowl. Another typical colour for LasiSepät is a bright green.
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Thanks px. I like the sound of the green and the tall cactus (Lotus) bowl would be gorgeous in green >:D I must keep a look out.
m
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Hi px :hi: when you say you still haven't seen the cactus shaped lotus, do you mean you have never seen one in reality, ot haven't seen a picyure of one?
I wonder if it might be easier to differentiate between these bowls by giving them the names on the Ravenhead boxes, instead of continuing to call them 'cactus' vases.
I will refer to the smaller one as 'Lotus', and the larger as 'Table Piece' from now on, as I think the name 'Cactus' was coined when it was thought to be Dartington Glass, designed by Frank Thrower.....but then again, how can I be sure? I understand that Dorling and Kindersley has it listed as a Frank Thrower design for Dartington Crystal!! Oh how quickly urban myths become fact.......... :help:
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rosie, I mean I cannot remember having seen the highest Lotus vase live nor do I manage to find a picture for reference here in Finland at the moment. But like I said I haven't looked much or long so let's see. On the other hand - I see many other Lasisepät votive models having been done in that higher shape of a vase too, very much in a similar way.
(example in this flower model: http://www.huuto.net/kohteet/lasisepat-kynttilalyhty/187070517 (http://www.huuto.net/kohteet/lasisepat-kynttilalyhty/187070517) )
Urban myths come a fact quickly - I might even predict it may be hard NOT to call these vases "cactus" in the future! ;D
I am very happy to have learnt another English word from this site ! "Cow Parsley" !!!! :thup: That's what these "hay or tree" patterned are also called here in Finnish. So that is I will refer to next time I talk about the pattern that in this thread has been seen with Italy molded and made in Denmark and Humppila. (I do not know why it is - probably mixed with the other flower patterned? - but believe, however, that this model was not ever produced by LasiSepät)
Many threads - eternal mystery... http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=18176.0 (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=18176.0) ;D
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Just as an aside, really... Cow parsley is a wild plant which grows like a weed along the edges of lanes here in the UK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthriscus_sylvestris but is also common in Sweden apparently:
http://flowersinsweden.com/Anthriscussylvestris_page.htm
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Lotus/cactus vase and bowl, tall and short for px
not great pics sorry.
m
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Thanks m !! Nice to see them in the same picture ! :)
Anne, thanks for clarifying that to everyone. Sweden is not that far from Finland, cow parsley is quite common here too.
Let them keep their cow parsley and let's hope we won't find a Swedish, glass company mixed in any of these items! :X:
There's quite enough in these we have in mind so far.
:ooh:
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A few more pics to go in the archives:
Three of the box, with the small Lotus dishes, and a picture of two of the Lotus dishes showing subtle differences. The Left one is slightly smaller and a more brilliant glass quality with no perfect matches for any of the 'points', only very similar. Might be they were different molds and different glass batches, or, perhaps one of them is Lasisepat.
More pics to follow in a minute.....
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I suspect the Lasisepat could be lead crystal. The Ravenhead ones certainly aren't.
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More pictures of my collection....the large ones are all identical, and all but one of the small ones are identical. (as mentioned above)
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but if you put candles in them don't let them burn down :cry: I should have two of each but now only have 1 tall one as it split cleanly in half at the table once the heat got to it.
m
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Thanks for the tip there m, I was going to put candles in all mine and photograph them in the dark......don't think I will risk it now!!
PS, You could replace it, there is one for sale on eBay with box.... :24: :24: :24:
(As if you didn't know!!!)
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;D
Actually Rosie in a funny way, it works well now, one large one in the middle and the two smaller one either end of the dining table. I was quite shocked when it just fell into two parts though (too much wine so didn't notice).
m
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This has made me want to cry!!!!!
Look!!
http://www.carters.com.au/index.cfm/item/50348-iittala-aslak-vase-with-six-petals/
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:24:
I'm more than happy to sell mine as Iitaala ......if they really are ::)
Honestly, I hope whoever designed this sorted out the royalties before they were produced ;D
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How about I sell mine m, ...one as Iittala, one as Dartington, Frank Thrower, one as Ravenhead, and one as Lasisepat?
List them all the same time and see which one sells the quickest???
Have I missed any potential makers out, 'cos I have got 6 of them??? :24:
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and obviously I meant Iittala ::) - note to self...do spellchecks
mmm, the only evidence we have so far is that they were produced by Lasisepat and also Ravenhead.
Would that be a correct summary?
m
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Carters is like Worthpoint based on online auction sales, therefore not to be relied on.
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and obviously I meant Iittala ::) - note to self...do spellchecks
mmm, the only evidence we have so far is that they were produced by Lasisepat and also Ravenhead.
Would that be a correct summary?
m
I'm not 100% certain about Lasisepat, because that had a label on the smaller vase (Lotus) but no illustrated documentation, however, Ravenhead does have boxes for both sizes, with the picture clearly displayed on it, so at trhe moment, that is the only attribution I feel fully comfortable with.
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Ha, rosie, Iittala in this respective makes me rather laugh than cry !!! :D You could as well try and sell yours as Murano and Sklo Union, I am sure nobody would be surprised, so many desperate or innovative tries we keep seeing all the time. ;D
But; as I have saved reference pictures of several LasiSepät stickered of the two lower models I personally am quite positive they have produced them too. Like mentioned - I have not yet seen the tallest model here - the one we have seen with a Ravenhead box.
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Wow, that is a really fine display and I am especially fond of Scandinavian design.
Such tidy shelves elegantly arranged... Hmmm, I'm beginning to think I will have to have a bigger clear out than I thought!!
You do have one piece which I think has now been undeniably identified as Ravenhead Glass on the second set of shelves, third shelf down on the left... was thought to be Lasisepat Glass but I was fortunate enough to buy a pair with the original box, so will post some pictures of them here so you can see them and decide if you think it should still stay with the 'Scandies'.
I have just sold six of them to one buyer! Needless to say I have kept the two in the original box for myself!!
There is also a larger version, again I was fortunate to buy one in the original box, and I have added a picture of that here as well. so all these years when I thought they were Lasisepat, they were made here in UK!
I have four of these for sale as well!!
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Rosie, do the Flair boxes actually say Made in the UK/England?
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Hi Christine, yes, definately!!
The small candle holders box has 'Made in England/Fabriqué en Angleterre, The Ravenhead Company Ltd, St Helens England.'
The larger one has 'Made in England/Fabriqué en Angleterre. The Ravenhead Company Ltd. Pyrene House, Sunbury.
I know there is a link somewhere here on the Board that mentions one with a Lasisepat Mantsala label, but as I have always said, labels can be removed and placed on other pieces of glass either deliberately or accidently....these boxes are, in my opinion, definative proof that these bowls were made in England by Ravenhead.
I am certain that I have already said this on a thread here on the board somewhere.
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You have Rosie, but I think if I recall correctly that one of our Scandinavian members has also confirmed that these were designed at Lasisepat Mantsala. AGain if I recall, there has been discussion about who designed them originally and how they could have come to be made in England.
Kisslikeether and Simba thanks for sharing...I love seeing other people's glass and their displays - yours are both great :)
Kisslikeether is that Kjell Engman pitcher?
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Yes, I think it was px who said it was Lasisepat because he had sourced one with a label, and I have Just found the thread, m,
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22282.70.html reply 76 onwards.
The thread drifts to a question about a quite different cow parsley sundae dish and the colours it is available in, then comes to the apparent Lasisepat Mantsala vase, called Metsa, meaning Forest... this has been quite a long research project for me.
I discovered that Ravenhead had links with an American glass firm which may account for the reason why many of these are seen on the US site... there is a larger shallower version that was recently available on USA eBay, and that was listed as Lasisepat.
Urban myths are a worry, because even when you have the proof in front of you, the old belief has gone on for so long you find yourself questioning the evidence in front of you.
I am satisfied now that unless I see an illustrated container showing this to be Lasisepat, then for me, a label will not be proof enough.
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Rosie more than one of these has been seen with a Lasisepat Mantsala label and in different colours I believe.
m
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I havent seen them, only heard of them m, but if I see more proof, I am happy to research that avenue... in the meantime, in fairness, I wonder if this part of the thread might be better relocated to the other thread mentioned earlier so that this can revert to the show me yours thread again.
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There is a tall 'cactus' /Lotus vase on ebay at the moment in smoke colour listed as Dartington. I've emailed the seller to ask if it is labelled.
I've asked the mods to rename the thread title to include Ravenhead Flair Lotus and Lasispet in the title somehow as it may help with future searches.
m
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I think extending the title to include all the names is an excellent idea m... this is an intriguing subject.
I saw the smoke colour vase on eBay , and wonder if the Dartington name is being used as a result of urban myth?? It will be interesting to note any reply here for future reference.
The Lasisepat vases on Huuto ( Now ended) were referred to as 'Metsa' meaning forest, but I have since seen others listed as 'Metsa' that are quite different.
In fact PX you made a link to this thread:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,40060.0.html
where you say the square bowl is Lasisepat Mantsala 'Metsa' design, yet I found one shown further on in the thread that I added that had the Viking label. So was the Viking label added to the second one, or was the Lasisepat one originally a Viking bowl with the label removed???
I am not trying to be argumentative here, just want to show how easy it is for any of us to be carried along by the belief that an item is made by a glass manufacture just because it has a label, even a signature can be forged.
To some extent I feel a sense of responsibility for perpetuating what may possibly be a further urban myth, because for a long time, when I saw a Lotus vase listed as Dartington Frank Thrower, I messaged the seller saying it was actually A Lasisepat Metsa design votive made in Mantsala with all the info I had gleaned at the time. It may still be true, the design may have been sold on, but we have no record of any of that.
So an illustrated carton showing the contents is invaluable in helping to positively identify the provenance of an item. And that is all I have tried to do here....share with you all, the ones I have, that have boxes illustrating the contents clearly, with Made in England on them.
I am sure there will be more to come in time. As they say, 'The thick plottens'!
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Permission kindly granted by seller on ebay to use her photo of this vase on the board.
The vase isn't labelled and I have said I think it could be a Ravenhead Flair piece rather than Dartington.
It's the first one I've seen in this colour, and the lady describes it as cinnamon
m
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That was really good of her m, and a useful addition to this thread... it looks good in that colour too.
Does anybody know of any other Ravenhead glass in this colourway? I have only seen their pieces in clear glass.
Did the seller give any reason for listing it as Dartington Frank Thrower?
Mods, thanks for changing the title... in later years we may all be glad.
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Just for completeness, I decided to buy this cinnamon coloured one... (I hope you were not bidding m?) and all the bark effect matches the Ravenhead vase I have in its own box, so I feel very happy that this is Ravenhead Glass.
I believe that Ravenhead also made a few pieces in a mid blue and pale pink...as and when I find them, I will photograph and list them here for reference.
Just as an aside, I did see a bright orange one for sale on eBay and bought it with great excitement!... it turned up, well packed, but it had been PAINTED orange!
The seller was very good and did refund in full including the return postage!!