Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => USA => Topic started by: glasswizard on October 08, 2005, 10:54:52 AM
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As promised, took a little searching, but here is Leni's opalescent piece in a different color and different shape.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/Muscadale/Tbeadedpanelsoropenopal.jpg I tried my best to show the opening in the stem. As Leni pointed out the repros do not have this opening. You can also see three of the four mould lines.
This was orignally done by Northwood. Then by Dugan/Diamond. The intertwining of Northwood and Dugan makes for interesting reading. Terry
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What is it called?
I can't find it in my book or on the website http://www.ddoty.com/aboutcarnival.html - though I have many bits I cannot locate on this site - bahhh - so many little links
Adam D555
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It is called "Beaded Panels" if it's Carnival Glass (when it was made by Dugan using the original Northwood mould).
It was called "Beaded" by L. G. Wright when they repro'd it.
It was called #562 by Northwood when they originally made it.
It is also known as "Opal Open" and Heacock even gave it another name - "Lorna".
Glen
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread! :D
I love the blue, Terry, (but I still like the green best I think) and the shape of the blue bowl in your picture is very nice, too. When I posted the question about mine, I wasn't sure what to call the shape of it. Does anyone know what the different shapes were called? :?
Leni
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Hi Leni, What we call the different shapes can vary. Yours is probably what is called the novelty vase, it flairs out at the rim. If it folded in it would be the rose bowl. Mine is the novelty bowl. If mine were flatter it would have been the card receiver. I just found two more, one like yours in white opal and one in carnival again a novelty bowl but with more ruffles than the blue one and in the color called peach opalescent. Its fascinating because it appears there was only one mould and all the different shapes were created by hand. Hope this helps Terry
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I find this piece interesting - I did find the shape Beaded Panels, by Dugan on the Carnival website - guys says
I can't recall seeing any that weren't pretty much like the example shown here
yet the Dugan one is clearly different from your example with a ruffled rim - he does say it was known in opal glass before it was made in Carnival (you get lot of pieces of opalescent carnival glass, is he using date as a indicator?)
Glen you mention the original Northwood mould was passed on to Dugan, so that would mean the ruffled edge?
Is your piece #562 by Northwood when they originally made it as an opalescent piece perhaps as 'Harry Northwood Glass Company'
Adam D555
I ask these questions as I have a chance at good opalescent glass that also seemed to transmute into Carnival with slight variations
I shall post a few pics later on
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As I said earlier the subject of the Northwood and Dugan families makes for interesting reading. This is going to be a short history lesson. To start Thomas Dugan was Harry Northwoods uncle. In 1896 Harry Northwood bought Indiana glass co. With him in the new venture were Sam Dugan and his three sons, Thomas A.E. Dugan Alfred Dugan and Sam Jr. This became the Northwood Co. In 1900 Harry sold the plant to National glass ( this included all moulds) and went back to England. Thomas A.E. Dugan was the plant manager. In 1904 Thomas A.E. Dugan bought the plant and formed Dugan glass. It has taken years to sort out who exactly made what and is still ongoing.
As to variations, I have looked closer at my three peices and there is a variation in the rim so that would seem to indicate more than one type of mould. As to the ruffling, that was done by hand so the variations one finds are tremendous. Dugan's carnival is among some of the best and I have often wondered if that is why when Harry set up his new factory he made sure his were marked with the famous N. The Northwood and Dugans may have been related, but competition is still just that.
Opalescent came before Carnival and when you have a new Fad (Carnival) you try it on moulds you already have. Dugan made many patterns in what is called peach opalescent. This is white opalescent with a marigold carnival treatment. Northwood on the other hand did not do much in Carnival opalescent. This is probably way too long and will raise more questions, but I would like to add that Leni is so lucky to have a piece that is truly historical. Terry
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This is probably way too long and will raise more questions,
No, No, Terry! :shock: It's fantastic! :D Thank you so much!
I would like to add that Leni is so lucky to have a piece that is truly historical. Terry
Oh, wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: Now you just made my day / week / month! :D
And I have to tell how nearly I didn't bid on it :shock: :oops: :roll:
There was a massive collection of vaseline / uranium glass being sold, and I bid on a piece that I thought was possibly Stourbridge, with the leafy feet that I like to collect. I was also watching the rest of the collection go, and Jonathan looked over my shoulder and commented that he liked this one better. But lthough I did like this one, I was determined to get myself another 'triffid' :twisted: :roll:
However, I was outbid :(
I was cursing and moaning and Jonny said, "well, quickly put a bid in on the one I like." So I did! :shock: And got it! :D
And when took the time to really look, I realised I also liked it better than the first one - I was only bidding on that because it was a 'triffid' :roll:
So I have my good ole hubby to thank for this lovely little piece of history :D
And thank you so much again, Terry, for filling in the historical background!
Leni
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I’ve been away, so please excuse this belated addition to something that is very close to my heart. The story of the Northwood and Dugan families does indeed made interesting reading. I have researched it (and written about it) and I also have the privilege of knowing some of the Northwood family descendants personally, so you may be interested to know a little more about the links and connections
The Northwood and Dugan families were English, of course. The name Northwood of course is renowned in British glass (John Northwood - Harry’s father - created an amazing replica of the Portland Vase in cameo glass). Harry Northwood attended art school in the UK and was trained in the glass trade by his father.
Harry Northwood emigrated from England to the USA in 1881, about the same time that his cousin Tom (that’s Thomas E. A) also left the UK to earn his living in the American glass trade.
(Tom Dugan’s father and Harry Northwood’s mother - Elizabeth Dugan - were brother and sister. The “Thomas Dugan” who was Harry Northwood’s uncle was not the Tom Dugan who made Carnival Glass. Known as Uncle Tommie, he was in fact Uncle to both Tom and Harry, as he was the brother of Harry’s mother and Tom’s father. In fact Uncle Tommie had emigrated to the USA when Tom and Harry were both youngsters. He had gone into the glass business and he was on hand later to give them both financial help and expertise).
For a while the two cousins actually worked at the same glass plant (Hobbs Brockunier). In 1887 Harry Northwood (and some other investors) bought the disused Union Flint Glass factory in Martin’s Ferry and renamed it …the first Northwood Glass Company was founded. There were various re-locations of Northwood Glass, including (in 1895) the factory in Indiana, PA. During this period of re-location, the two cousins had stayed and worked together, and indeed Tom Dugan was plant manager at Northwood’s Indiana, PA works (his brother, Alfred Dugan, was plant foreman).
It gets trickier now! In 1899 the two cousins went their separate ways. Harry went back to England (for a while), having sold the Indiana glass plant to the National Glass Company. Five years later, Tom Dugan bought the Indiana glass plant and re-named it the Dugan Glass Company. At around the same time, Harry Northwood went back to the USA and bought another old glass factory (Hobbs Brockunier, in fact) in Wheeling, WV. He called it Harry Northwood & Company.
It’s this final step that has caused some of the glass identity problems that beset Carnival for years. Northwood made his Carnival glass at Wheeling - but his cousin, Tom Dugan, made his Carnival at the old Northwood factory of Indiana, PA. And the tricky thing was, of course, Dugan was using some of the old Northwood moulds.
In 1908 Northwood began making iridised glass - Carnival.
Dugan was certainly experimenting with iridescence for a few years, but his Carnival lines didn’t hit the market until 1909.
One tricky piece is called Nautilus - and is known in peach opalescent (a Dugan signature color) but it sometimes bears the Northwood script signature. This was undoubtedly made by Dugan using his cousin’s old mould, before removal of the moulded signature.
Dugan’s Carnival is certainly greatly admired - though I think most Carnival collectors would say that his cousin, Harry Northwood, had the edge on him.
Terry, you said Northwood on the other hand did not do much in Carnival opalescent. What? Perhaps you mean that Northwood didn’t do much PEACH opalescent Carnival? That’s for sure - there are a few examples but they are rare and very sought after indeed. However, Northwood is hugely famous for making opalescent Carnival on aqua base glass. His aqua opal is possibly the most sought after color in Carnival - and in fact holds the record for the highest price ever paid. This was for an aqua opal Peacock at the Fountain punch set.
Anyone want to guess what it sold for?
Oh, and if anyone is at all interested, here’s a pic of me and Steve with Harry Northwood’s grand-daughter - the late Miss Elizabeth Robb.
http://tinypic.com/eikuu1.jpg
(I’m kneeling beside Miss Robb - Steve is standing behind me)
She was a magnificent lady and a devoted collector of her grandfather’s glass. At her home in Wheeling she had some of the most magnificent examples of his work, including some Silveria vases. She also had a piece of cameo glass that Harry had carved - it was exquisite. If anyone is in the area, don’t miss the Oglebay Institute which has some wonderful examples of Northwood’s glass.
Also in the photo are David McKinley and his wife, Mary (both standing left). David’s great grandfather was Harry Northwood’s younger brother, Carl. In 1998, David McKinley began the New Northwood Art Glass Company in Wheeling, in a desire to keep alive his great uncle’s glass tradition.
I hope this additional information has been of some small interest.
Glen
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Thank you so much Glen for all that information. Now for a bit of humble pie, I should have said Northwood didn't make much opalescent Carnival that I can afford. The aqua Opal has to be some of the most beautiful glass ever produced. I saw an Acorn Burrs Punch bowl once in Aqua Opal and literally almost cried because of the huge crack that virtually was about to split it in two.
Any information on David McKinley's venture. This is the first I have heard about it. Is it still going? Thanks Terry
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Hi Terry - yes, lots and lots of information on David McKinley's venture....it's all (photos too) in "A Century of Carnival Glass" :lol:
David had his glass "poured" by Fenton. The first was a series in the style of Northwood's Grape & Cable items (a new mould was used, inspired by the G&C pattern). The second series was based on the Dolphin card receiver shape (David used the original mould but ensured that they were very different...and signed...to the old original ones).. I have whimsies and originals in both of the series. Very beautiful.
There is nothing in the works right now, as far as I know, but if I hear of anything I will let you know.
Glen
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For Leni and others who wondered what Glen and I are talking about when we say "Peach Opalescent" I am taking this opportunity to post a pic of the one and only piece I have.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/Muscadale/TBeadedPanelspeachoapalescent.jpg
No your eyes do not deceive you, the stem is a bit wonky.
Enjoy Terry
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:shock: :D Fantastic, Terry! :D and I can see the resemblance to mine! Isn't it fascinating how the same basic shape could be so wonderfully varied in the hands of those expert glassmakers? :shock:
And Glen, thank you so much for that wonderful history of the Northwood / Dugan families! :D
We are so lucky to have such wonderful contributors to this board! (http://www.smileys.ws/sm/action/00000033.gif)
Leni
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Glen, thank you for such telling us this fascinating story of the Northwoods and Dugans. I hadn't known before that they were related... Peter keeps telling me that the glass world is very small and I'm beginning to realise just what he means now. Thank you again.
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Adam D555 - re your question:
you mention the original Northwood mould was passed on to Dugan, so that would mean the ruffled edge?
The shape that is shown in the early ad for the#562 is a rose bowl (cupped in). It has a scalloped top edge - this would have been made by the top ring (part of the mould/plunger). The item that came hot from the mould could have been shaped in various ways, which would include ruffling or tight candy ribbon crimping (as shown on Terry's gorgeous peach opal example). It could have been cupped in, flared out etc. too.
Terry - beautiful piece of Carnival, thanks for showing the pic. It's gorgeous.
Anne - the relationships between the Carnival Glass makers (like so many other glass makers) are fascinating. Here's a few others. Fenton and Imperial were linked by marriage. Fenton and Millersburg were linked directly (John Fenton started the Millersburg glass works).
And for anyone interested - here's a pic of four different opalescent Carnival pieces:
top row left to right: DRAGON AND LOTUS in aqua opal; DRAGON AND LOTUS in vaseline opal with a pastel iridescence.
bottom row left to right: DRAGON AND LOTUS in peach opal; PEACOCK AND GRAPE in vaseline opal with a butterscotch iridescence
(http://tinypic.com/eimdky.jpg)
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Glen, you are in grave danger of turning us all into carnival glass afficionados and then we'll buy it all up and leave none for you! :P :lol:
Seriously, I like the opal/peachy coloured ones rather than the strong orange/marigold. It was that strong orange colour that put me off carnival really - I'm not an orange person. The bluey/greeny colours you've shown us before and these opally coloured ones are gorgeous.
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Anne, yes, I also love the blue shades - especially when the iridescence is electric and shimmering with rose and purple.
Of course, most people think of marigold when Carnival is mentioned - it is the most frequently found colour, and there are certainly a lot of rather poor, flat and weak examples of it too. But there are also some examples of pastel marigold around. Don't misunderstand - true pastel marigold is not a shiny, silvery weak effect. It's a shimmering, magical iridescence that, with the right lighting, is Drop Dead Gorgeous. It's also hard to find. :cry:
And so as we began this thread by talking about Northwood's glass, how about a piece of Northwood's pastel marigold in the Peacocks pattern, to give an accolade for good old Harry.
(http://tinypic.com/eio7pf.jpg)