Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Trinket Sets => Topic started by: agincourt17 on October 24, 2012, 10:01:42 AM
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A flamboyant clear glass (looks like pressed crystal) trinket set - pair of candlesticks, tray and lidded trinket pot.
The pot lid and body, and foot of each candlestick, are hexagonal, and the tray is octagonal .
The body, lid and large fan-shaped lid finial of the pot, and the foot and fan-shaped stem of the candlestick, are heavily decorated with alternating angular plain and rounded ‘feathered’ ridges.
The underside of the tray is decorated with angular radial plain ridges grouped in panels of four alternating with single ‘feathered’ ridges.
I’ve seen other examples of pieces from this set, and they have always been of clear glass.
ID’s, comments or suggestions, please?
(Permission for re-use of these images on GMB granted by naughtynouveau).
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Photo showing the pin tray in addition to the tray and a candlestick.
So… the curtains open to reveal another Ernst Buder set:
Candlesticks pattern 356, on page 22 of 1960 catalogue at
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Ernst-Buder-1960.307+B6YmFja1BJRD0zMDcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTEyNzU4JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTMwNyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html
Tray pattern number 264, on page 11 at
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Ernst-Buder-1960.307+B6YmFja1BJRD0zMDcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTEyNzUzJnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTMwNyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html
Lidded pot, flask and pin tray pattern number 560, on page 30 at
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Ernst-Buder-1960.307+B6YmFja1BJRD0zMDcmcHJvZHVjdElEPTEyNzY2JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTMwNyZkZXRhaWw9.0.html
(Sorry about the length of the links but I’m still trying to work out how to truncate them).
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Oh isn't that super, Fred! A lovely set, and this new Buder catalogue is providing answers to some of our mysteries... I'm delighted! :)
By the way, there's a help post about how to do the short links as well: Short URL Links (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,19557.0.html) 8)
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Thank you for the tip about the short links, Anne - it should enable me to tidy up my posts in future.
The old catalogues certainly are a fantastic resource - it's just such a shame that copyright on their reproduction seems to be so problematic.
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Thanks Fred I see Pamela has the vase ID as Reich c.1935....another set for you Anne this time Ernst Buder 560/561...
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Oooh lovely, Angela, thank you for sending the photos over. I've been able to pick them up via email tonight now I'm back on the main computer and can access the network again to get them uploaded to GTS. My tablet is handy but I can't update my sites from it!
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Some pictures to add to the 560 set, with measurements if required.
Candlestick. Height 13.5cms.
Lidded Pot. Height 13cms. Bowl 12.5 x 7.5cms.
Pin Tray. 13.5 x 9.0cms.
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Trying to make some sense of the 1960 catalogue. Can I make the following suggestions.
Page 20, open salts. Could these be dual purpose? Number 346 looks the same as the pin dish pictured with set 550. The 347 would fit well with the 510 set. The 033 bowl on P.2 looks more appropriate to set 530, than where it shown with set 510.
I'd also suggest that the large tray number 204 would be a better match with the 510 set, making the "Sunset" design consistent. Tray number 264 with the 560 set and tray number 205 with set 530.
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Thank you for both these posts, they are really useful. I've added the images credited to you onto the GTS website.
As to the pin trays / open salts, I'd say yes they could be dual function.
The 346 certainly appears to match the pintray shown in the 550 set photos.
I don't think 347 goes with 510, as the 510 is often seen with a small round pintray which might be 031, 032 or 033 from page 2 of the catalogue, but as you say those three are a better match for 530 than for 510. I suppose it would depend on what the buyers wanted as to what pieces were combined to make sets.
As to the big trays, the sets in the catalogue came with small (comb) trays, but as British consumers clearly liked the big trays in their sets, perhaps the buyers added larger matching trays to some sets to satisfy their consumers.
As the late Bernard Cavalot was fond of reminding us on the board, what the buyers for big stores wanted, they got. Just because the catalogue showed a set as A, B, C didn't mean that the manufacturer wouldn't mix and match so if the buyer wanted A, C and X, then they could have it, all in the interest of making those sales. :)
I think it would be useful to add the large trays as separate items in the Buder catalogue, as well as showing them with the sets they've been found with. I'll add that to my to do list. Thanks for all your very helpful suggestions.
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I certainly agree with Bernard's thoughts on the relationship between buyers and manufacturers.
My first thought about the 510 set was that sellers were matching up pieces to the photos and making identical "sets", when to me, they are obviously not.
Taking a longer look at the Buder sets in general it strikes me how few photos have been uploaded of any of them. One of the first pieces of glass I sold on ebay was a powder bowl from the 530 set (and regret doing so since) but I've never seen another. From looking out for pieces of Buder sets for several years, I now don't think there is any "pool" of pieces for sellers to put together to make up sets.
Of the 560 set pieces I uploaded pictures of, the bowl lid and pin dish arrived damaged although individually very well packed with plenty of padding around each piece. I've sent several hundred pieces of glass through the post without any breakages and couldn't fault the sellers packaging.
Perhaps the buyers back then knew that Buder glass is particularly fragile and mixed together pieces they though had the best chance of surviving the journey. The 510 powder bowl and candlesticks have survived in some numbers, but perhaps not much else has??
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All the Buder pieces I've handled have seemed fairly sturdy, so I'm not sure your suggestion will hold water to be honest. I would suspect the damage "in transit" is more to do with thermal shock / temperature changes causing issues rather than anything else, but wouldn't like to say so for certain.
I've added a few more photos to the Buder section as they've come in, but there are still a fair few we've not seen examples of yet, sadly.
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Your suggestion that the damage could be thermal shock really does make a lot of sense. I invariably pick up parcels from the local DO and they are always cold. When I unpack them the glass is far colder than room temperature, it's as though it's been in a fridge.
It could also explain why they were damaged in "odd" places, not places where they are likely to be knocked. The underside of the lid rim and the inside edge of the pin dish. Even without layers of bubble-wrap, tissue paper and card, it would be difficult knock them at such an angle to knock off flakes.
Love the new pictures, they are evidently not as difficult to find as I thought and perhaps more examples of buyers mixing things up, as I would have put a 352 candlestick and a 205 large oval tray with the 530 set.
The 204 tray shown with the 530 set is the one I would have thought more appropriate with the 510 set.
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I think that because there are several trays in the same or similar patterns it takes us back to the buyer choosing to make up sets to suit their own marketplace. Trying to catalogue sets sometimes doesn't work because of this mix and match option available to buyers whether wholesale or retail.
As to the damage around the edge of the lid and rim of the dish, this is usually caused by usage, picking the lid up and putting back on can and does cause flakes to be chipped away, and not all ebay (etc) sellers notice these or think they are worth mentioning. Cracks through pieces are more likely to be thermal shock, whilst when something arrives in bits like a jigsaw you can be sure it's either poor packaging or poor handling in transit. I always leave a package or even something I've bought from a charity shop in the packaging it arrived into come up to the ambient temperature in the house, before unpacking it. Then when washing it I do it in warm water not hot, as hot water can cause thermal shock as well, and cause cracks to appear in pieces that otherwise appear to be sound. Glass is funny like that - it's like it has an invisible crack which can suddenly become visible when the temperature changes suddenly.
Talking of new pictures, I've just added some unfrosted amber candlesticks to Reich 8792 gallery - the first time I've seen these!
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Could a way forward be by referring back to the catalogue and looking for larger ranges with the same pattern and showing "idealised" sets on GTS, with a note on the Buder title page to explain the mixing and matching for commercial reasons.
Looking through the catalogue (from memory) there were several sets that were part of larger ranges including tableware. If we accept that pin dishes might also be salts, could the same principle also be applied for some trays and powder bowls?
E.G. The 530 set as shown in the catalogue, plus a 205 large tray, the 033 pin dish and 352 candlestick would make a seven piece set with consistent design. Wouldn't that be consistent with other manufactures who sold small "basic" sets but with optional "add-ons" to make up larger ones.
At the moment there are photos of one set with pieces of others mixed together, pieces obviously part of sets but not shown in the catalogue, so not "known pieces".
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Going back to the damaged pieces.
When I unwrapped them the flakes were inside the wrappings, still in position, under the tissue-paper.
I'm always very careful when washing glass to only use warm water since hearing a "click" and finding a handle had cracked across its join with a Chippendale bowl. I'll have to learn to be more patient and resist the temptation to tear open boxes as soon as I get them to let them warm up slowly. Sad to think that they were probably not damaged in transit but were intact until I unwrapped them :'(
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Another Ernst Buder 560 Trinket Set thread here for merging please mods.
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,69097.0.html
GTS site Ernst Buder 560 link:
https://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms3/german/ernst-buder/560-561
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Merged. :)