Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. No ID requests here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on June 26, 2011, 10:54:47 AM

Title: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: Paul S. on June 26, 2011, 10:54:47 AM
Believe it or not I actually thought this might have been early C19 English - guess it was the folded foot rim that distracted me.    However, it is Murano, and although a half thickness of the original label showed nothing of any help, when washed off there was sufficient of an imprint on the glass to discover its origin (maybe there are some solvents in the label ink that leave a slight impression on the glass).   I seems that the original label might have had two circles of script.........one saying 'Made in Italy'  -  and the outer one saying 'Made in Murano'  -  although flying a bit of a kite there.   Unfortunately, I can't find an exact match in the Murano labels site under the GMB archives, and I know next to nothing about this material, and maybe even very modern and perhaps they still produce feet with a flolded rim like this.     Diameter is about 7"/180mm.     Would be interested in knowing a date, if someone is able to help, and my thanks as always for looking. :)
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: Anik R on June 26, 2011, 04:21:20 PM
Sure I'll have a date with you on your Murano dish...  don't know how well your dish will carry the weight of our bodies though. ;D
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: Paul S. on June 26, 2011, 05:28:25 PM
Dear Anik - Suddenly gone very hot in the South of the U.K. - too hot in fact for me to think of a good riposte, but will consider your offer ;)   But seriously  -  I do have a Murano MVM Cappellin piece with the same folded foot rim - although appreciate this one is certainly not the same, or even the same age.     Nonetheless this is Murano, and quite delicate, and I forgot to say that it has a snapped pontil mark (possibly slightly smoothed).      thanks for your interest :)
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: TxSilver on June 26, 2011, 05:38:16 PM
Paul, the label is AVeM definitely. This type of label came in one of three colors (red, blue, green). The M on the top line is the last letter of AVEM. Labels that had the name were considered their "artistic" glass. This type of label was used from the 1940s - late 1960s, so isn't very good for narrowing the date down.
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: Paul S. on June 26, 2011, 05:51:37 PM
my sincere thanks for your help and informative reply Anita  -  being rather dim I had assumed that the 'M' you speak of was in fact the beginning of the word MADE - I should have realized that I was trying to make the word go backwards  :pb:      Although I don't collect Murano, seriously, this will sit nicely with my piece of Cappellin, and can only feel it was fortunate that part of the mark remained on the glass.   Thanks again. :)
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: antiquerose123 on June 26, 2011, 09:16:57 PM
Paul, the label is AVeM definitely. This type of label came in one of three colors (red, blue, green). The M on the top line is the last letter of AVEM. Labels that had the name were considered their "artistic" glass. This type of label was used from the 1940s - late 1960s, so isn't very good for narrowing the date down.

http://www.fossilfly.com/Forums/album.php?albumid=5&pictureid=72 (http://www.fossilfly.com/Forums/album.php?albumid=5&pictureid=72)

Good find Paul, and keen Eyes there !!  8)  :thup:
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: Paul S. on June 26, 2011, 09:32:02 PM
thanks very much rose - good to actually see an example of the complete label. :)
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: TxSilver on June 26, 2011, 09:42:05 PM
There are also pictures of labels that have the dates where available in the Murano Zoo. The link is https://sites.google.com/site/muranozoo/useful-links-books/murano-labels
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: tam bam on June 28, 2011, 01:36:32 PM
Great bowl, Paul!  I too have one of AVEM's footed bowls.  They made a lot of them in their day and bowls have tons of quality.  http://www.fossilfly.com/Forums/album.php?albumid=21&pictureid=361.  Mine still retains the original label which is red.  I really like yours.  The blue is so electric.  I am a sucker for blue glass.  

tam bam

P.S. - One question though, does your bowl contain some black ash specs?  Mine does and depending on if yours does or not may helps us pin down if your piece was made in the prior to the 1960's.  
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: Paul S. on June 28, 2011, 03:33:51 PM
thanks tam bam  -  will have a look at the bowl again, in detail, this evening, and let you know if I can find any 'black ash specs.'     Quote from tam bam............"depending on if yours does or not may helps us pin down if your piece was made in the prior to the 1960's".          Are you suggesting that pieces with ash contaminant are known to be one side of this date line or the other??        Sounds quite a useful dating method, although actually I was offered a date earlier in the thread >:D      Apologies for being flippant, and thanks for your interest. :)
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: tam bam on June 28, 2011, 08:12:37 PM
Exactly,  I think I have some info on my home computer regarding Murano furnaces and if I still have it I will post it.  I sure hope I saved the site so I don't have to search for it again.  It took me two days just to find the right info. 

tam bam
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: Paul S. on June 28, 2011, 09:02:20 PM
sorry, this bowl doesn't seem to have any inclusions of ash that I can see  -  there are, however, quite a lot of extremely small randomly occurring bubbles in the glass.    It seems that these can be felt more on the underside of the glass, but I might be mistaken.  It's just possible that there is some undiluted colour in one or two very smallish areas of the main rim (unless this is possibly the ash you mention).   
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: antiquerose123 on June 28, 2011, 09:04:48 PM
Hm-m-m-m-mm-m....I think there are some of mine that have Ash in them...and those are not Avem, but FT.  Does that make a difference at all as to date, too ??

 :huh2:




P.S. - One question though, does your bowl contain some black ash specs?  Mine does and depending on if yours does or not may helps us pin down if your piece was made in the prior to the 1960's. 

Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: tam bam on June 28, 2011, 09:19:23 PM
It is common for many glass companies to have ash specs in the glass.  My Dino Martins lamp has some on it and I know for a fact it was made in the 50's.  This doesn't just apply to one particular company.  Honestly, I like seeing the ash specs in older pieces.  It tells me the piece is legitimately old.  I also have a SVdA bird with ash specs in the glass. 

tam bam
Title: Re: request for date on Murano dish
Post by: tam bam on June 29, 2011, 03:17:05 PM
I looked on my computer at home last evening and I hate to say but I didn't save the article I found on Murano furnaces.  It talked about the history of the furnaces and how they use to operate and how they operate currently.  It was a fascinating read and I had to dig really deep just to find it and I guess I thought I saved it for future reference, but I guess I thought wrong.  I'll see if I can find it again.  It also talked about when most companies in Murano switched to gas furnaces and I believe it stated that most companies converted to gas in the 1950's and some in the early 60's.  This is why a lot glass pieces have ash specs in the glass that are older pieces and why you don't see the ash in today's pieces.

tam bam