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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Trinket Sets => Topic started by: Connie on November 21, 2005, 03:23:20 PM

Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Connie on November 21, 2005, 03:23:20 PM
I bought this set the other day.  It is both impressed marked Portieux on 1 piece and another has a PV France label.  Does any know the pattern name and approximate date made? I get conflicting info on the use of the impressed mark and label on the internet  :?  Also what is the correct name for the color - it is a translucent dark jade green, very lovely.

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Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: pamela on November 21, 2005, 06:34:38 PM
Hi Connie!
what a beautiful set!!!
I traced it: Portieux catalogue 1933 (may be older - this was my first try)
on 'planche 145' (page 145)
Garniture de Toilette SUÉDOISE (Trinket set 'Swedish')
the colour is 'vert de pommes' - apple green

Portieux and Vallérysthal operated a lot together, that is why you read PV on one of the items - IMHO this single piece was not for sale but a sample without commercial value at that time  :)
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Connie on November 21, 2005, 09:00:25 PM
Thank you, Pamela.

I am still confused about the label. You say
Quote
Portieux and Vallérysthal operated a lot together, that is why you read PV on one of the items - IMHO this single piece was not for sale but a sample without commercial value at that time


By single item - Do you mean just the piece with the paper label (it is the tall jar) or do you mean the whole set?

Here is an article I found on the internet which really has me confused.

 Article on Portiuex Hen on Nest - Pdf file  (http://www.gransplace.com/Documentation2004pdf/VallerysthalPortieux04.pdf)
 This quote is on page 8.
Quote
MARKS:
Items may be marked or not marked. Items may or may not have a sticker or label.
If a piece is signed Vallerysthal, it was made at the factory anytime up until 1942. If
the piece is signed Portieux it could be old or it could be new as pieces with that mark are
still being produced (1986 sic). The P.V. sticker has been used since after the Second World
War. [ON Apr:86:XXX] Pinkston1 says that the “PV” sticker was used on export items from
about 1890 until 1970. It is reported that Mitteldorfer Straus, Inc., of New York imported
items from France in the 1950s.2 Supposedly, the “PV” stands for “Peasant Village,” a name
that this wholesaler still uses on many imported items.4
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: pamela on November 21, 2005, 09:07:19 PM
Connie, what a find on that PV label!
I did not know anything about this - I only presumed P+V also regarding the poor quality of the sticker
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: pamela on November 21, 2005, 09:27:01 PM
I guess your set is a collection of items of same pattern over the years and by incident also a PV item and a PORTIEUX marked item were added

Portieux also offered the water bottle and some more items
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Sklounion on November 21, 2005, 09:43:12 PM
Quote
Supposedly, the “PV” stands for “Peasant Village,” a name
that this wholesaler still uses on many imported items.4

Oh please.....  PV=????

Portieux Verrerie, just how complex do things need to get?
Being really creative, and no offense intended, we could just as easily say "PV" = pomme vert.

regards,

Marcus
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Ivo on November 21, 2005, 10:15:40 PM
lots of mystification there.
Portieux and Valérysthal were marketed together since the Franco-Prussian war of 1870 when Portieux was on the French side and Valérysthal on the Prussian side of the border.
In pressed items you will usually find either name, or none at all. On Portieux table glass you may find - in France - a PVP label. The PV (Portieux Valérysthal) label was used by both companies for exported items.
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Sklounion on November 21, 2005, 10:32:14 PM
Quote
Supposedly, the “PV” stands for “Peasant Village,” a name
that this wholesaler still uses on many imported items.4


Ok Ivo,

so PV is even more obvious..... :lol:

A general observation: study glass, then you will have a slight understanding of how myths are born :lol:  :lol:

Regards,

Marcus
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Glen on November 22, 2005, 08:50:12 AM
You want myths?

How about the N mark on Carnival Glass that for some time was explained as being from Nancy Glass? (It is the Northwood mark).

Or the straw mark / shear mark myth that it is caused by a piece of straw being stuck to the hot glass as it cooled. (It is actually caused by the cold shears cutting the hot glass gob).

Or the myth that Carnival Glass was only distributed by being given away at carnivals and circuses (yes circuses).

Glen
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Connie on November 22, 2005, 11:09:50 AM
I thought the PV = Peasant Village = a bunch of hooey  :lol:

Ivo - If you have not read the entire pdf file article, you are quoted in it.

One reason I bought the set (besides absolutely loving it) was for the marks.

I thought the PV stood for Portieux Valerysthal also. But then I had my doubts because of previous discussions on the board about the PV molded mark found on milk glass.

Do you think that this set is from the 1930s as Pamela's information suggests?  The jade green or appple green color would fit with that time period.  Or was this suite made for a long time and therefore an exact age cannot be determined?
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Glen on November 22, 2005, 11:15:14 AM
The author of the pdf article in question is one of our members. She's a thorough researcher (and a delightful lady) and I am sure would be interested in helping here.

Glen
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Connie on November 22, 2005, 02:04:48 PM
Great Glen! I don't think anyone is questioning her article but the source that she quoted.  If she has more info on the use of the PV label I would love to know. I am also interested in the NY import angle. In RL I work  in the import industry and it  never ceases to amaze me  the volume and variety of items imported through NYC.

Since I don't know her user name could you please invite her to this thread.

Thank you!
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Glen on November 22, 2005, 03:16:36 PM
Hi Connie - yes, that's what I thought would be a good idea - I'm sure she'd love to help. She's a wonderful researcher and (fingers crossed) I hope she'll get back to me ASAP.

Glen
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: AlmasAttic on November 22, 2005, 03:55:06 PM
I am following this thread with great interest as I have some Portieux vanity items too where some have the PV label.

Connie, your set has me drooooooling big time :P
Title: PV label...
Post by: SAS on November 22, 2005, 08:18:22 PM
Dear Readers,
As a collector/researcher of ONLY glass hen on nest covered dishes, I really don't know much about other glass items....only what I pick up in passing and what will help me in attributing glass hen dishes. The researching of glass is complicated by our having so few primary source materials and by the imaginative speculation of many that is passed on like the game one played in school where the teacher whispered something to a child and that child whispered it to her/his neighbor and it was passed down the line until the last child said aloud what he was told. The last child's telling was seldom even close to what the teacher originally said! But, each child was positive that they heard and repeated the teacher's message exactly.
Alas...I get much too philosophical here! You want to know what the PV label means. I haven't a clue other than what I have found in print and from other researchers. I do know that PV has not been seen mould-marked into an item. I do know that the PV label appears on ceramic (porcelain?) items also. I know that the PV label has been seen on items that are also marked "made in England," "Made in Italy," and "Made in Czechosovakia."
A seller on eBay said that Godden's Encyclopedia of British Pottery and Porcelain Marks shows the mark as standing for "Pleasant Village." The PV mark has also been seen with "Porcelaine Limoges France" surrounding it. In the September 1979 issue of Glass Review, p.8, Steve Jennings shows a picture of a 1950s ad from Mitteldorfer Straus of 38 imported from France items. Steve says, "To the best of my knowledge, this is the same company that featured items with a sticker marked 'P.V. France,' which I take to mean the 'The Peasant Village.'"
I personally believe that it was used by an importer/exporter much the same as Shannon Crystal is used today for items made in the Czech Republic. I am sure that you are aware of other such uses of labels.
While we are puzzling over the PV label, let us consider the SV mark also. I have been told that more information about that mark, which may be a label or mould-marked into the item, is coming out next year in the form of a book. I do not know who is doing the writing/research or what the information will be. Let's hope it is definitive and well-documented.
The following Web site may be helpful to those of you who are not familiar with it: http://toto44.chez-alice.fr/ It is in French, but if you right-click somewhere in the page, you have the option of having it translated (and I use that term very loosely!)
Siegmar Geiselberger also has a very interesting article that includes variations of the PV label in his PK 2005-2 ("Zur Produktion von Pressglasern aus Opalin-Glas in den Glaswerken Vallerythal & Portieux von 1915 bis 2005 Fur die Sammler ein Traum oder ein Albtraum?")
Gerard Triboulot's Web site (in French) may also be helpful: http://www.la-verrerie-de-portieux.com/
Dear Me! I do rattle on! Sorry if I have repeated information that has gone round before.
Shirley in Charleston, WV
http://www.HenOnNest.com
(please note new Web site. The old Gransplace Web site will be taken down at the end of the year)
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: Connie on November 22, 2005, 08:43:34 PM
Thank you for the information and links, Shirley.

I found this page on the first link you provided

http://toto44.chez-alice.fr/opale/index.htm

It has part of my vanity set and if I understand the French, the picture dates from a 1914 catalogue.

What is interesting is that I had 2 other pieces on that page - the elephant and the HON which I sold earlier this year.
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: pamela on November 22, 2005, 08:57:18 PM
While we are puzzling over the PV label, let us consider the SV mark also. I have been told that more information about that mark, which may be a label or mould-marked into the item, is coming out next year in the form of a book. I do not know who is doing the writing/research or what the information will be. Let's hope it is definitive and well-documented

Shirley thank you so much for this contribution! It lets read and prosecute a lot  8)
Title: Portieux Jade Green Vanity Set
Post by: pamela on November 22, 2005, 08:59:25 PM
ohh sorry - i wanted to have Shirley's post QUOTED . did not work - sorry again!