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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Murano & Italy Glass => Topic started by: TxSilver on October 27, 2010, 03:14:58 AM

Title: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on October 27, 2010, 03:14:58 AM
As promised in the cafe, this is my new horse. It is 10.5" (27 cm) long and 8.5" (21.5 cm) tall. It has great hooves and a mane made using a lattimo aurato technique. It reminds me a lot of Barovier and a lot of Seguso, and a little of other artists. It has a good nose, good mouth, and spooky eyes. It's heavy, weighing in at 7 lb 5 oz (3.3 kg). Does anyone have ideas who might have done this horse. It is sommerso amber blown with gold foil. I like this horse.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: tam bam on October 27, 2010, 11:04:37 AM
What a great looking horse, Anita!  It is most certainly high quality.

tam bam
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on October 27, 2010, 12:36:02 PM
Thanks, Tami. The sommerso combined with the pasta makes me think it was made late 1930s to early 1950s. I think the horse would have been even nicer if it had a pasta tail and leg ruffs.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: tam bam on October 27, 2010, 03:59:41 PM
I was going to say that it appears to be old.  I just think it is a great horse.  I don't see too many animals that were made like this on the market now a days.  Wonder who made it...

tam bam
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: ardy on October 27, 2010, 10:57:26 PM
Sorry Anita, I just don't get it. I have been looking at Seguso animals and I still can't bring myself to buy one - let alone a collection.

I have friends who buy those murano dancers etc and I don't get that either. I must be missing a gene somewhere.

regards
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on October 27, 2010, 11:36:10 PM
Quite okay, Ardy. Many people are into the sommerso vases and bowls that are so important in Murano. They've never been able to capture my interest. But twist one into an animal form and voila! I'm intrigued.

A little about myself -- I started college to become a veterinarian, but changed to wildlife because I like squirrels and deer more than dogs and cats. My politics are all about animals. If a presidential candidate told me that he/she believed in equal rights for all animals, my vote would be theirs. So it's not unusual that I should be drawn to glass critters. Fortunately, I'm not alone. Animals are a favorite among many Murano lovers. They particularly like the ones that fly.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: antiquerose123 on October 28, 2010, 04:59:09 AM
Love it !!!  Super !!!!  :hiclp:

Hi, as an animal lover myself -- and growing up on a farm....and having a horse (thoroughbred/quarter horse cross)......IMHO this horse reminds me of the Clydesdale horse.             http://www.mypets.net.au/flex/clydesdale/342/1


The Clydesdale horse was more sturdier, strong, used for work (plowing) and this glass horse reminds me of that -- as it does not look dainty, or a fancy dancy glass horse....it looks sturdy, and strong....Like a Clydesdale.  Most common color for a Clydesdale is bay or brown (though some other color are know).  So I am just thinking that since this glass horse is also a *brown* color -- might again, reflect on it as a Clydesdale horse....

....Just MHO

Here is a rearing Clydesdale horse (on Svazzo site) and I just wanted to point out that it too has those little *tuffs* of glass hair along the lower feet like a Clydesdale.  This on is designed with a base -- but I just thought I would point you too it

Rearing Clydesdale: http://www.trocadero.com/svazzo/items/1024389/item1024389store.html#item
 (http://www.trocadero.com/svazzo/items/1024389/item1024389store.html#item)

....A donkey, but glass still...LOL:   http://www.trocadero.com/svazzo/items/952583/item952583store.html#item
 (http://www.trocadero.com/svazzo/items/952583/item952583store.html#item)
I knew my farming background would come in handy.....someday... :spls2: :pb:

Edited to Add  *** Found it -- or was this the one that you bought??

Click Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-EARLY-VENETIAN-MURANO-CLYDESDALE-SEGUSO-HORSE-/190457314422?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5823fc76&x=25&y=8)  :thup:
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on October 28, 2010, 01:16:07 PM
These early animals can certainly be difficult. Finding documented animals can be nearly impossible. I am sure it is because most didn't survive into the digital age, so there are few left for people to look at and wonder about. Svazzo's equines are nice. The hooves on the donkey do look like it could be Barovier, but it's hard to know for sure. I've seen other animals similar to the Svazzo's big horse, but I don't remember seeing any of them documented.

The eBay horse is mine. She also thought it was a Clydesdale. Belgians were also well known during this time. I'd rather have it a King's Horse than a circus horse, so Clydesdale is fine. Maybe I can find a little Budweiser wagon for it.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on October 28, 2010, 01:18:38 PM
Oh, and I thought of the word for the leg ruffs -- fetters. The glass horses just take a little artistic license. It would be hard to make them look like the real things.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: Lustrousstone on October 28, 2010, 01:46:06 PM
No the word is still in the black hole. It's the feathers on his fetlocks.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on October 28, 2010, 02:13:18 PM
I'm learning so much about horse anatomy. I looked up fetters and saw that they were the leg irons used on prisoners. Those would certainly trip a horse up.

I just thought about how I've not seen withers on any of the Murano horses. I think we need to lodge a complaint. I'll have to search to see if I can find any with withers.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: jinxi on October 30, 2010, 09:11:25 AM
Have you considered Barbini as the maker?  Some things remind me of some of his pieces, hooves etc.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on October 30, 2010, 04:00:06 PM
I considered Barbini. My feelings are that the horse is from the late 1930s, when Barbini was working with VAMSA. If the horse had some sfumato, I would think maybe.  :) I think the amber is a key, but I don't know what it is a key to. The neck and chest look like a Martinuzzi design, but Martinuzzi wasn't known for simple sommerso of his animals. The horse is superficially like Poli's famous bullicante brown horse, so maybe it is a simpler horse based on that design (or was the precursor to the design). Cappellin? BSF? So many possibilities.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: antiquerose123 on November 05, 2010, 09:53:56 AM
(http://www.debook.com/gifs/Mailwave.gif)   

Might this Horse be of any interest in this Discussion...as I just found it.  I am not a member there to log in for price, but I thought I would pass this one anyways....and maybe someone else is a member there to log in for more info....and a Barovier Horse, so it states...

http://antique-prices-appraisal.values4antiques.com/Vetreria-Artistica-Barovier--C---50e75

 ;)
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on November 05, 2010, 01:08:45 PM
That is a beautiful horse. Here is a link to let you know what it sold for: http://www.antiquehelper.com/item/314304. I would love to have one of the Barovier pasta horses like the one on Antique Helper. I don't know how they made such simple pieces so appealing. I wonder if they made these animals to make people feel happier during the Great Depression. I can't help buy smile when I see many of them.

About my horse -- I've seen a couple of pictures of the Poli-Archimede Seguso famous bullicante horse. The sample that is in Murano Magic has transparent hooves that are shaped like my horse's pasta hooves. The fetlocks are also shaped the same. I have the feeling that my horse is in the lineage of that horse -- maybe Barovier-Seguso-Ferro or Seguso VdA.

Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on November 06, 2010, 03:44:37 AM
I found the horse at http://issuu.com/lamodern/docs/june2007_forweb (Page 63, Lot 126). It was made by Archimede Seguso, apparently around 1937. Their estimate ($300-500) for a horse this age and size seems very low to me, even though the one in the auction doesn't have the nice pasta details. I'll have to see if I can find out what the bid was for it. And maybe now that I have a maker, I should be able to get more information. I hope I didn't pay way too much for it. But live and learn.  :-X Archimede was with BSF during this time, but there are some pieces he executed for Seguso VdA. I wonder if this design was for BSF or VdA. If what is written in the auction description is correct, this horse preceded the Poli-Seguso design.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on November 06, 2010, 04:01:23 AM
I just found the results for the auction at http://lamodern.com/June2007_LAMA.pdf. The horse in the Los Angeles auction sold for $1320. Whew! I feel much better about paying so much for the horse. It is the same as mine, but has the Poli-style bullicante and transparent hooves and mane. I like my horse better.

One thing I wonder is about the Poli-Seguso horse. Credit for the horse is given to Archimede in Murano Magic. Marina Barovier gives designer credit to Poli in Animals in Glass: A Murano Bestiary. She comments the horse was executed by Archimede. So I am a bit puzzled. Could Archimede be the designer and executor of the famed bullicante horse? I wish they were still alive so we could inquire personally.

I feel confident enough to put this in the zoo. If it looks and quacks like A. Seguso... well, you get the idea. Majorly cool. 8)
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on November 06, 2010, 05:23:17 AM
When I was about to fall off to sleep, I suddenly realized that BSF was the precursor to VdA. BSF was reorganized as VdA in 1937, so the horse was made around the cusp of the reorganization. There's no confusion after all.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: antiquerose123 on November 06, 2010, 07:14:34 AM
Hi there -- plus that Art catalog was dated June 2007....so one could say that price there is outdated.  I think (IMHO) you are  :thup: all the way to the Bank.  Way too nice of Horse to lose any value (IMHO)... Will only Increase.  Good early piece.

...and think of it, not that far from being a 100 years old - and a True piece of Antique Glass

 :rah: :rah:

P.S.  (IMHO)  To me items 99 years or less is a Vintage item.....While 100+ years or older is a True Antique

 
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on November 06, 2010, 03:15:08 PM
I don't know if they increase in value, antiquerose. Something I didn't consider until this morning is that my horse is a good bit larger than the one in the California auction. Mine is 10.5" long. It can be so difficult to find information for these rare pieces. I understand why people pay appraisers.
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: tam bam on November 18, 2010, 02:26:25 PM
I just caught wind of the new findings on your horse, Anita.  Very good detective work.  I knew it had to be special.  That is fabulous that you found out who made it.  A. Seguso's animals are by far superb.  Way to go!!!!!! :rah:

tam bam

P.S. Rose - I agree that anything 99 years or younger is Vintage and 100+ is antique.  This is what I was told when I worked in a lamp & antique store. 
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: antiquerose123 on November 19, 2010, 03:42:35 AM
 :hiclp:   Good for you Anita!!  Good Eye !!

Thanks Tam Bam for telling me your definition is the same.  I hate when I see something advertised as *Antique* from 1970's....LOL.  Go figure ??

I guess I not really *antiquerose123* -- but really a *vintagerose123*  :24: ;D :thud:   Whooops...lol

To Anita  :thup: on your Horse
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: soledivo on November 22, 2010, 01:31:46 AM
what a gorgeous horse,
for my money it reminds me most of the Seguso examples, a rare find Anita  :thup:
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: TxSilver on November 22, 2010, 02:07:49 AM
Thanks, Martin. It has the honored position of being on my file cabinet. It is a stout fellow. I love the pasta glass.

(I've been looking for your candleholder with no luck. I know I've seen it somewhere.)
Title: Re: Old Murano Draft Horse
Post by: soledivo on November 22, 2010, 02:26:56 AM
the "pasta" technique really sets it apart from other examples,
but i love the way the limbs are applied, it sort of gives life to the shire/workhorse idea.