Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: stew2u2 on September 06, 2012, 09:20:08 PM
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hi
bought this today think it is french but not sure of maker any info would be greatfull. i have looked at my books think it is clichy then baccarat then something else now i have gone goggled eyed
thanks
stew
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I think this design is now attributed to the Grenelle factory - in the past they have been called St Mandé, and before that Bohemian!
Alan
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http://www.weights-n-things.com/en/archive/antique-paperweights/france/st-mande/miniature-7-cane-cluster-centre-rose.html
Chris
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Hi
thanks for looking and the info
there is not much info about these makers i have 4 books on paperweights and there is nothing in them i have googled for 2 days now and not much out there as well. are they rare what age
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The age is mid-late 19th century. They are not common (ie far fewer than Paul Ysart weights, say), but not so rare as to be particularly valuable. I think they usually sell in the £100 to £130 range if in excellent condition.
Alan
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Hi alan
thanks for the info i have just been reading past GMB posts you have said about these weights.you can see why us newbies to glass can get it all wrong when the same designers flit between the different companies. like you said Charles Bredgen who founded the Grenelle factory, having previously worked at St. Mande then moved to clichy, designs they must have moved as well
the canes on this weight seem a better quality than some of the photo's of other Grenelle /
St Mandé weights
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Hi. I agree that some St Mandé and Grenelle are messy - but some are high quality. See the two below - neat weights, with nice canes.
Alan
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Alan, I know that more information about the Grenelle factory has come to light in recent years. May I ask what criteria are used in deciding whether a weight is in fact Grenelle, St Mande or Clichy, given the information that Charles Bredgen worked at all three and as Stew says, surely some designs would have moved with him?
I am particularly interested in how those weights previously identified as St Mande are now attributed to Grenelle? What does one look out for?
Thanks.
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im certainly no expert but the 2 weights alan has look very clichy influenced. i suppose to the trained eye its like butter to margarine
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Hi Leni.
I think Clichy canes are very distinctive, personally, but St Mandé and Grenelle are a different matter. A French collector - Philippe Frère - has carried out a lot of research on the two factories ( I think he was the man who helped confirm the existence of these factories together with Patty Mowatt and others). He has written several articles about them, including one in the PCA Bulletin 2012 which has over 40 pictures of Grenelle weights and another 17 of their canes. I think that 11 cog canes are distinctive of Grenelle, as are canes with multiple layers of colour (such as those in the outer row of the Grenelle weight I have shown above). But not all of their weights have these features, of course - one is then looking at the style of the canes.
Alan
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Just thinking does this mean that some people who have bought what they have thought was clichy weights now find they have Grenelle weights
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I suspect that lots of (?most) people have bought weights in error over the years, believing what antique shops tell them or what it says on a label at an antique fair, or what the eBay advert says, or accepting the views of fellow collectors, as well as misleading themselves! However, there are fewer StM and Grenelle around than there are Clichy weights.
But it works both ways - I have been shown a very nice Bacchus that the shop had labelled as a Murano, with a Murano price. And an antique Baccarat garland that was put on eBay as Murano, Buy it Now £29.99 - which the current owner did! And I have bought several Clichy on eBay that were not identified as such.....
Alan
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Thank you, Alan. It was the St Mande / Grenelle confusion particularly which interested me, as I have a few small weights previously identified as St Mande which I now need to look at again in the light of the new information. Thank you particularly for the information about cog canes.
I shall certainly investigate the writings of Philippe Frère and the others you mention.
Thanks again.
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the white star cane on this clichy looks a lot like the star canes in my weight. might be wishful thinking.
stew
http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s441/Sparky7724/16-09-12/?action=view¤t=IMG_1434s.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s441/Sparky7724/16-09-12/?action=view¤t=IMG_1434s.jpg)
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Do you mean the white, 6-point star canes that make up the outer row of the complex, mainly white, cane in the Clichy weight?
If so, then I would say that matching simple canes, such as a basic 6-point star, is not the way to go - unless the cane has a distinctive feature.
For example, if the points of the star were all flattened at the tip, or were split into two or three spikes at the tip, then that feature could be used as a possible marker for a specific maker.
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well i tried ::) i wonder if i will ever get this glass game
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the white star cane on this clichy looks a lot like the star canes in my weight. might be wishful thinking.
stew
http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s441/Sparky7724/16-09-12/?action=view¤t=IMG_1434s.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/albums/s441/Sparky7724/16-09-12/?action=view¤t=IMG_1434s.jpg)
I hope this one's Clichy, I just sold it as such ;)
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Hi. I'm sure that is a Clichy paperweight!
As some GMB Members know, I am writing a series of articles on millefiori cane design for the PCC Newsletter. Just to illustrate the challeneges that antique millefiori cane ID can present, below are two images of canes.
The first shows two close-ups of canes that might be taken to be from the same source, given the use of square tubes, and blue and white concentric canes - and the similarity of colours. But they are not even from the same countries!
The second shows some individual canes. The two left hand columns represent different makers in different countries...and the extra cane on the right is from a third maker.
Alan