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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on January 16, 2010, 06:18:53 PM

Title: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: flying free on January 16, 2010, 06:18:53 PM
Hi
I know I MUST get a copy of Mark Hill's book at some point (I have had 20th century glass for Christmas and Marcus' book as well :angel:) but since I only have 3 pieces of Mdina, for the moment I have to wait.  
Could I ask yet again for some help on a Mdina (I think from my searching?) piece please?

I think this is described as an obelisk but could it be a pyramid?  What is it named really?  It is 8.5" tall and has a polished flat base no signature.  When did these stop being produced ( obtuse question which could be reworded to 'does anyone know what period this may be from'  ;D) ?

The colour of this has led me to think my Carafe is green, rather than blue.  But then as I say, I know nothing...however having stood this next to the side stripe and also the carafe, I would say the side stripe is turquoise, the carafe green based and this piece, dark turquoise or teal.  Or am I barking up the wrong tree in that they are from different ranges anyway?
Another question, would that make the carafe an earlier piece if it did turn out to be green based? rather than blue?

Any help very much appreciated and many thanks in advance  :)
m
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: Andy on January 16, 2010, 06:39:35 PM
Hi m,
In Marks book they are called obelisks, 1970s-90s.
I think they were made in many sizes, i have 7.5, 9.5 and 11.5 inches, i havent seen many of the larger
ones.
i should think the carafe is 1970s/80s.
Cheers
Andy

(ive added a pic)
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: suzygpr on January 16, 2010, 06:49:31 PM
Andy's quite right, Mdina obelisk, late 70's-90's.  Not made during Michael Harris' time. Have a few myself all around the same height, though have seen a couple that were around a foot tall.

Suzy
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: flying free on January 16, 2010, 06:59:37 PM
Thank you both  :)
Andy they look great together.  Do they come in other colours/mixes or was it just this teal colour? 

'though have seen a couple that were around a foot tall'  :o  WOW!  they must be stunning. 

m

Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: suzygpr on January 16, 2010, 07:13:01 PM
The taller ones are bigger in proportion all over, seriously heavy!

Most come in the teal colour but have also seen an ochre coloured one.

Pic of a couple of mine
http://picasaweb.google.com/guinearescue/SuzySGlass#5314916074261732370

Circa Glass - this one is 27cmH
http://www.circaglass.co.uk/phdi/p2.nsf/popup?readform&sup=circa&img=E205b.JPG

Suzy

Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: Andy on January 16, 2010, 07:51:54 PM
I think ive seen one in brown/sandy striped pattern :huh:
and i dont want to boast, but my 11 1/2 inch one is pretty impressive  :-[

Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: flying free on January 16, 2010, 09:26:57 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2010, 11:40:15 AM

The image of the one at circa IS the one in the book, (p. 52). (Look carefully!)
I'm personally a little bit unsure about it, the rim appears to be ground, whereas even if the neck of something was rather uneven, it was usually fire-polished.

When I see a ground finish on a neck, I normally rather suspect a repair. But never say never.

This particular obelisk also appears to be hollow, but I've never had my sticky mitts on it. If it's triangular in shape, I'd personally think it might be a tricorn bottle missing it's flange/button bit.

To be sure though, I'd need to get hold of it.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: Andy on January 17, 2010, 12:48:32 PM
Sue,
I tend to agree, i thought it looked hollow,something not right there.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: suzygpr on January 17, 2010, 05:03:26 PM
I think your on the button there Sue - just checked the Miller's site (they've used the same pic as the book too) and called it a vase.

http://www.millersantiquesguide.com/items/33319/1970s-mdina-glass-three-sided-sculptural-vase-1075in/

Suzy xxx
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2010, 06:13:16 PM
It looks awfully like my tricorn bottle, which I've just measured - 13.75" tall, but if the neck had been broken off at the same point (to make it the same shape, as there's a slight bulge before the neck gets slimmer - a typical early thing) it would be 11" tall. Allowing for individual variations and/or a break, it's just too like a tricorn bottle, minus it's neck and flange.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2010, 06:41:22 PM
phew... (caveat - severely limited knowledge from me ;D) hopefully this means I'm learning something from all my reading, but I initially looked at that Circa one and thought that mine was nothing like it in shape and with the worst pictures in the world I couldn't make the top of mine that shape.  Then looked again at Suzy's and Andy's and thought, oh, that's ok then, mine look like theirs :) .  In my ignorance, just thought that it must be a variation  :-\  Glad to know I saw something wasn't quite the same.
p.s. I've never seen a tricorn bottle so wouldn't make that connection.
Thanks again.  I am going to have to get more glass obviously  ;D
m
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: Andy on January 17, 2010, 06:47:07 PM
Suzy   :-* :-*
I have no idea how ive never seen it before, i use the books,
but the Millers Website is great and free, for some reason i didnt even think of googling them,
and dont think ive seen it on any search results :o  Strange,
its gone straight on my fav list, loads of glass!
Cheers,
Andy
 ;D
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2010, 07:28:21 PM
If there's any daylight at all, I'll try to get a pic of my Tricorn bottle this week to show the similarity. I do believe we are actually looking at two images of the same bottle, just different lighting conditions.
In Mark's book, the light is coming through it, but you can make out the same shapes in the underlying colours, in the image on circa, the light is more on the glass, which makes it look a bit more like the carafe.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: glassobsessed on January 17, 2010, 08:47:28 PM
I think you are barking up the right tree.  :clap:

I have never noticed that photo before (book/website) and it does not look like any other obelisk to me and it sure looks hollow. I also reckon it is likely a 'repaired' early bottle, note the indentation on the bottom. I bet it hides a snapped pontil, like the early Mdina bottles and many (or should that be all?) of the IoW attenuated bottles.

John

Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2010, 09:29:27 PM
looking at the Millers picture am I right in thinking if you enlarge it that there is a definite hole at the top which is why it is described as a vase?  Does that show in the picture in the book?
or am I being confused by this whole thread ... which is likely ;)
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: glassobsessed on January 17, 2010, 10:00:07 PM
Yes, probably.

It does not show in the book as the image is small.

Confusion, how could that be? ;D

John
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2010, 10:04:50 PM
 ;D
Just thought I may have been becoming confused about which photos were being compared to which  and lost my train of thought....and since I don't even have the book I probably shouldn't be contributing  :24:
But it struck me that if it is the same item, then perhaps that top rim bit would show in the book.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: Andy on January 18, 2010, 12:22:54 PM
Hi m,
the picture in Marks book is tiny, its only now, you can see the top has probably been ground,
Id never looked that closely, i just always thought it was an unusual pattern for an obelisk!
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 18, 2010, 12:46:56 PM
I think I got some images this-morning, I'm busy right now, and have to go out, so it will be later on before I can deal with them (computery-wise). The bases are all quite irregular in how they're finished during the early years - the base of my Tricorn is polished flat. I've got polished round pontil marks, ground round pontil marks, crescent moon shaped scars amid a polished flat base - I've even got a bit which has the Maltese cross stamp on it's base. It all depended on the availability of staff, time and equipment how bits are finihed off.

I've also got a couple of Earthtones square-bottomed bottles with attenuated necks - one has the top part "missing" - no flange, and roughly ground, the other with it's heat-finished flange. I don't know what happened to the ground one.

You'd think if somebody was bothering to get it polished, it would be smooth. Also, at the time I bought it, these were not going for the sort of money you'd think it would be worth somebody spending cash to fix.

So, to be honest, I wouldn't like to say this rough finish wasn't done at the factory.
They were struggling to keep up with demand and I think a lot of "non-standard" bits may well have been sold.

I've even got a Fish vase (heat-finished, smooth lip) which has no long neck at all, but a wide rim which finishes in the middle of the shoulders - sorry, it's packed away in the attic, can't get my mitts on it.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 18, 2010, 05:12:11 PM
'Fraid I'm no David Bailey and don't have a smart set up for photography, but I've tried to get "sun-through-the-glass" and "sun-on-the-glass" images of the bottle from a couple of angles.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/more%20glass/tricorn1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/more%20glass/tricorn3.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/more%20glass/tricorn4.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/more%20glass/tricorn6.jpg

and yes, f-f, when you enlarge the Miller's Guide image, it certainly does look as if there's a hole at the top - not only that, but you can see where the thickness of the internal wall is, through it, directly in line with the inside of the hole-bit.

Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: glassobsessed on January 18, 2010, 06:01:44 PM
Dreamy bottle.

No David Bailey? You do yourself an injustice Sue.

John
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 18, 2010, 06:26:52 PM
 :) Thanks - it's got some nice irridesence.

Do you see where I'm coming from over the "Obelisk" description, though?
I think it's an error.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: glassobsessed on January 18, 2010, 10:43:20 PM
Yes, the 'obelisk' in question has the irregular look of an early Mdina bottle.

Am I right in thinking every other obelisk so far appears to be solid and of a different form?

I wonder where that piece is now and also the likelyhood that it left the factory looking like that?

John
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 19, 2010, 01:02:28 PM
I'd say so. They're solid, triangular(-ish), and have the colours central to the piece - the colours are also have the "jewel-like" quality which Mark describes of later pieces. They're also a later design, so I would think it highly unlikely they would have the cloudy appearance found mostly in the earlier bits.
Title: Re: mdina I think - obelisk I think - any idea of date please
Post by: suzygpr on January 28, 2010, 06:12:56 PM
This is a whopper of an obelisk - 13"!! Not enough colour for me to be tempted.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120523397183&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Suzy x