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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: BSevern on July 05, 2006, 07:41:55 AM

Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: BSevern on July 05, 2006, 07:41:55 AM
Hi,

I'm working on a bit about the Whitehouse Glassworks and I'm trying to figure out how Edward Webb fits into the grand scheme of things.  

Was he one of Thomas Webb the first's sons?  Thomas Webb had five sons, and I've found four of them (Joseph Webb, Thomas Wilkes Webb, Charles Webb, Walter Wilkes Webb) but am missing the fifth.  

In H.W. Woodward's book "Art, Feat and Mystery - The story of Thomas Webb & Sons, Glassmakers" we learn that John Webb, Thomas Webb's father entered the glass industry and in 1833 became a partner of John Shepherd at the White House Glassworks, trading as "Shepherd and Webb."  John Webb died in 1835, leaving his share of the business to Thomas, his only son at that time.  

If he wasn't one of Thomas Webb's sons, does anyone know what his relationship was ?

Also I've seen Whitehouse Glassworks referenced as being in Stourbridge, and other times Wordsley (which are less then two miles apart), but assume they are the same glassworks.

Any information on Edward Webb would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Brian
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Frank on July 05, 2006, 08:12:59 AM
Hartmann quotes Giles Hayward, The celebrated Manley Collection auction catalogue as a source. He gives a spidereb mark with an E above it. Gives a date of c.1890 but provides no family link.

I cannot find my copy of the catalogue, do you have one?
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: BSevern on July 05, 2006, 08:30:41 AM
Hi Frank,

Thank you for your reply.  

I've been able to confirm the spider web mark was used by the Whitehouse Glassworks from the Nash notebooks.

Mr. Woodward does a nice job giving a fair amount of info up to about the 1850's on Whitehouse Glassworks, but there's a large gap from then until about the 1880's.    And one of the mysteries seems to be exactly where Edward Webb fits in as far as the Webb family.   Apparently he was  co-manager and partner with Nash, until Nash went to work at Thomas Webb & Sons (and then came to the U.S.A.).

Brian
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Frank on July 05, 2006, 08:58:29 AM
Hartmann gives the name:
Edward Webb, White House Glass Works, Wordsley near Stourbridge.

I think Webb was not an uncommon name. Like Moncrieff in Perth, there are so many separate lineages of the name without any other connection.
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Frank on July 05, 2006, 09:06:52 AM
Hadjamach does mention an Edward Webb as being the brother of Joseph Webb and in a partnership that was dissolved in 1850. To my mind 40-50 later when the White House is mentioned, is possibly too long a period for them to be the same Edward. It should be possible to get the date of birth of the Edward Webb that was Joseph's brother. Perhaps Edward had a son Edward?

It is probably worth contacting Hadjamach on the connection.
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Bernard C on July 05, 2006, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: "Frank"
... It is probably worth contacting Hadjamach on the connection.

How?

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: BSevern on July 05, 2006, 06:40:44 PM
Frank,

If you could PM me an email address for Hadjamach I'd really like to contact him and see what his thoughts are on this topic.

If Joseph Webb was in fact his brother, then Thomas Webb the first is his father.  This would make sense considering that after John Shepherd retired, Thomas Webb had full ownership of the Whitehouse Glassworks.

Thanks,
Brian
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Frank on July 05, 2006, 08:41:27 PM
Hadjamach's address is available to Glass Association members so I am reluctant to hand that out to non-members. However, you can write via the Broadfield House Glass Museum using there form

LINK TO FORM (https://online.dudley.gov.uk/mandoforms/servlet/com.mandoforms.server.MandoformsServer?MF_XML=CE_GeneralResponseFormver3&MF_DEVICE=HTML&MF_FIELDSETS=true&MF_ERRORS_EXT=false&contact=Broadfield%20House%20Glass%20Museum&to=Glass.Museum@dudley.gov.uk&contactNumber=01384%20812745)

There could also be someone else at the museum that can answer.
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: BSevern on July 05, 2006, 09:47:45 PM
Hi Frank,

I've used that Broadfield House Glass Museum form in the past with no response.

Could you provide further details on the Glass Association, and how I could join?

Thanks,
Brian
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Frank on July 05, 2006, 09:54:08 PM
Hi Brian,

It is worthwhile joining, excellent research being regularly published. Contact through their website at http://www.glassassociation.org.uk/

It is also worth getting any of their back-issues that are still available.
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Bernard C on July 06, 2006, 06:57:40 AM
Brian — the Glass Association journals are invaluable.   As a member, you can obtain photocopies of any which are out of print.

For example, Vol. 2 contains Barbara Yates' article The Glasswares of Percival Vickers & Co. Ltd., Jersey Street, Manchester, 1844–1914, which contains material relevant to you explaining that Thomas Percival was the nephew of Thomas Webb Snr., becoming works manager for Molineaux & Webb before setting up in business in his own right.

All three glassworks (the above plus Burtles Tate) in Manchester had family connections, and cooperated to a certain extent, so Yates found at least one example of one glasswork's products filling gaps in another's product range, a practice which I suspect happened a lot more than we know about today.   Of course, with cut glass, it is more complicated, as uncut blanks could have moved from one glassworks to another.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: BSevern on July 11, 2006, 11:36:56 PM
I found the information I was looking for - Thank you.

Brian
Title: Re: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: agincourt17 on August 27, 2015, 10:48:58 AM
Some details about Edward Webb and The White house Glassworks, abstracted from a reply I have just posted on the GMB at
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,60884.msg343323.html#msg343323

Quote
Abstracted from Jason Ellis’s “Glassmakers of Stourbridge & Dudley 1612-2002):

On 29 September 1844, Edward Webb of Wordsley and his cousin Joseph Webb of Amblecote formed a partnership and took over Hollway End Glassworks, Wordsley, to manufacture flint glass. Edward and Joseph were cousins of Thomas Webb who operated Platts Glassworks. Edward had previously been a farmer, and Joseph had previously worked as a packer for Webb and Richardson at the Wordsley Flint Glassworks and then as a clerk  for his cousin Thomas at Platts Glassworks. They  agreed that Joseph would make the metal and Edward would handle the commercial activities of the business. 

In October 1850 Joseph and Edward dissolved their partnership. Edward’s interest in milling was causing some disagreement between him and his cousin Joseph. Joseph Webb left to take on Coalbournhill Glassworks [and there has been extensive discussion on the output of Joseph Webb and his executors on the GMB], leaving Edward Webb in sole control of Holloway End Glasshouse.

In 1851 Edward Webb lived with his wife and family at Wordsley and employed a hundred hands. In 1853 he left Holloway End and moved to join his brother William at the White House Glassworks [interestingly, the projected new home for the Broadfield House glass collections]. The two bothers also had a joint business as millers.

William Webb died at Wordsley in 1866, aged 65. Edward Webb brought his sons, William George and Edward junior into the business and the firm traded as Edward Webb and Sons. They exhibited at the Wolverhampton Exhibition of 1869 and received an accolade in the official report that included the following: “… this firm carried out the representation of decorated and table glass in a most effective manner. …the details of the decorations, whether engraved, cut or blown on, give evidence of the most perfect mastery of the material. … some of the specimens of ‘flashed’ glass were most delicate… in no previous exhibition has there been so perfect a display made by any one house. It is needless to remark on the quality of the metal or the purity of its colour, since in this respect it is all that can be desired.”

In 1871 Edward Webb lived at White House, Buckpool, Wordsley, ‘ a glassmaster, miller, hop seed and corn dealer’. He died at Wordsley in November 1872. The glassmaking business was carried on by his younger son Edward.  His older son, William George, followed at military career and rose to become a colonel and Member of Parliament for the Kingswinford Divison from 1900 until his death in 1905. he was also chairman of North Worcestershire Breweries.

In 1876 the business was described as ‘Edward Webb, flint and coloured glass manufacturer and sole patentee of the improved process of printing on glass.’

In 1897, Edward Webb chose to cease glassmaking on his own behalf and leased out the glassworks, His tenants were his distant cousin, Thomas Ernest Webb and George Haryy Corbett. They founded the firm of Thomas Webb and Corbett Ltd. The trademark Webb-Corbett was registered the same year and the new firm officially commenced trading in 1st January 1898.

There are some photographs of hand blown and decorated Edward Webb glass at http://theantiquarian.us/Hist.%20William%20Webb,%20Jr.%20&%20Edward%20Webb.htm
although no date is given (but I think that the piece shown probably dates from around the late 1880s). Note the hand-painted ‘spiderweb-E’ trademark, introduced, apparently, in 1883 (but no registered design number).



Fred.
Title: Re: Edward Webb - Whitehouse Glassworks
Post by: Lustrousstone on August 27, 2015, 11:08:50 AM
I have this
http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1567
http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1568
http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1569