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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Malta Glass => Topic started by: Glasshound on January 03, 2007, 01:33:14 AM

Title: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Glasshound on January 03, 2007, 01:33:14 AM
Hi Folks. Can anybody tell me if this contemporary or vintage?

Thanx!

/Blair

http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/7578/2000540615050630758_rs.jpg
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 03, 2007, 09:15:19 AM
 ;D

Hello Blair, These are called Fish vases, axehead is a serious misnomer!

This is of a later date than Michael Harris, I would think after Joseph Said took over. Pink did not come in until the '80's.

Haven't you managed to get hold of Mark Hill's book "Michael Harris: Mdina Glass & Isle of Wight studio Glass" yet? You do seem to have an interest in this glass, ;D ;D ;D, demonstrating your excellent good taste! The book is fantastic.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Glasshound on January 03, 2007, 01:02:18 PM
Thank You Sue!

Actually, this is the first piece of Mdina I've ever picked up   ;D

I'll definitely have to pick up that book..

Cheers.

/Blair

Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 03, 2007, 05:22:03 PM
 ;D

Aha, but you've posted Isle of Wight Studio Glass before, haven't you?

or am I losing it again.... :-\

The book's available on the usual internet buying site, I'm pretty sure it's on BiN on eBay and I think it's also available through Mark Hill Publishing. ;D
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on January 03, 2007, 09:04:19 PM
;D

Hello Blair, These are called Fish vases, axehead is a serious misnomer!

But it looks way more like an axehead than a fish  ;) :)

Carolyn
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 03, 2007, 09:09:05 PM
Could it be a flat sort of Swordfish??

(smacks palm to forehead)
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Glasshound on January 03, 2007, 09:19:22 PM
How bout a Lollipop?   ::)

/Blair
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 03, 2007, 09:31:56 PM
I've never fancied a fish flavoured lollipop...
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Leni on January 03, 2007, 09:46:39 PM
I think this is the sort of fish they're meant to be modelled on http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/albums/userpics/10048/normal_Fish.jpg
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 04, 2007, 09:57:21 AM
 :P ;D

It's manta rays they're supposed to look like, from above. I believe Michael Harris did not like them being called axeheads!

Afficionados of Harris dynasty glass are working to dispel the axehead misnomer. ::)

Lollipops do not have the side-wing casings. ;D
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on January 04, 2007, 08:16:46 PM
:P ;D

It's manta rays they're supposed to look like, from above.

Okay, I can buy into that! What did Mr. Harris have against axeheads?  :)

Carolyn
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 05, 2007, 09:46:54 AM
  ;D

I suppose it's just not the name he gave them. ::)

As he was such an incredibly important figure in the Studio Glass Movement, I do think it would be more pertinent for the vases to go down in history with the correct name, the one he gave them.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 05, 2007, 10:24:20 AM
  ;D

I suppose it's just not the name he gave them. ::)

As he was such an incredibly important figure in the Studio Glass Movement, I do think it would be more pertinent for the vases to go down in history with the correct name, the one he gave them.

But lots of things get called mnemonic names that weren't given by the original makers. I don't see the usual names for Whitefriars glass vases in any of the catalogues, just the shape numbers for example. 
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 05, 2007, 11:28:50 AM
 ;D

I'm only pointing out the wishes of the Harris family. I feel strongly that these should be respected.

I do understand that things get called things other than their original names, for all sorts of reasons, but at the moment, there is still a remote possibility that the correct name could be the one to be remembered, so I'm busily pointing it out whenever I can.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Pip on January 05, 2007, 01:21:41 PM
I'm only pointing out the wishes of the Harris family. I feel strongly that these should be respected.

I do understand that things get called things other than their original names, for all sorts of reasons, but at the moment, there is still a remote possibility that the correct name could be the one to be remembered, so I'm busily pointing it out whenever I can.

Me too Sue, I've got used to calling these fish vases now so it's easy to keep calling them that.  There was one in a charity shop the other day (with a very hefty price tag on so I didn't buy it) but interestingly it was labelled up as a 'Mdina Fish/Axe Vase' - so I think your efforts in getting the proper name out are filtering down.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Sue C on January 05, 2007, 01:30:02 PM
And of course, they should be called what the creator wanted them to be called.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 05, 2007, 01:37:21 PM
;D

I'm only pointing out the wishes of the Harris family. I feel strongly that these should be respected.

I do understand that things get called things other than their original names, for all sorts of reasons, but at the moment, there is still a remote possibility that the correct name could be the one to be remembered, so I'm busily pointing it out whenever I can.

I do agree with you, I was simply devil's advocating for a moment.  And I do try to name them correctly - although I still mention axe somewhere in the listing as it is still a keyword that people search for, although I suppose in its way this is simply making the use of the correct name further away...  :(

Difficult to know what to do as an internet seller, I need to get people to find the listing in the first place, so do I miss out on those people using the incorrect term, or fish (on the hoof editing: please excuse the unintentional pun) using the widest net possible? 

Or is this really getting into the realms of keyword spamming, if it is not the correct name?

Likewise, is it reasonable to spell Wedgwood as Wedgewood somewhere in your listing to attract the people who can't spell.  Which in fact I don't do.

So am I talking myself out of using the term axe at all????

(please excuse the stream of consciousness..... ;D)

Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Pip on January 05, 2007, 01:43:11 PM
Lynne, I know exactly where you're coming from - what I tend to do when listing items that are regularly incorrectly named is to say something like 'Offered for sale is a Mdina Fish Vase - these are often incorrectly described as Axeheads' - that way you manage to elbow the wrong description in to pick up those searching for axeheads yet at the same time you educate them as to the correct name!  As for Wedgwood, it's an ongoing problem, those that insist on putting in the 'e' - I don't quite know what to do about those since I absolutely hate spelling errors and that's what it is so I don't put in my listings either.  I suppose proper collectors will know the correct spelling of Wedgwood.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Carolyn Preston on January 05, 2007, 10:12:00 PM
;D

I'm only pointing out the wishes of the Harris family. I feel strongly that these should be respected.

Of course! I was just curious as the original poster, seemed quite adament (and for the life of me, I couldn't find a fish  ::)  :)  )

I certainly have no problem following the designers wishes.

Carolyn
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 05, 2007, 11:01:18 PM
So I'm leafing through my Miller's Collectables books in front of watching the video of Cash in the Attic... (as you do...)

and what do I find in 2006...:

Mdina Axehead vase...

twice!

and a lollipop described as a fish...

and then in (I think it was 2004)  - Another!




so who is getting the short straw of educating Judith Miller???   :o :o

Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 06, 2007, 11:38:34 AM
 ;D ;D ;D

Please Miss, I know, I know!

Mark Hill is the gentleman who has been both writing for Miller's DK Collectables Price Guides, AND collecting and researching Harris dynasty glass. He thinks he might have been responsible for the axe thing.
Initially, Mdina did get into Miller's DK Collectables Price Guides, but before anybody really knew anything about it. Interest in it has been steadily growing, and folk have been trying to find out about it!
It was stuff that came from Malta.
A lot of it was unmarked.

You'll see in later Miller's DK Collectables Price Guides that the information is correct.

Until recently, there has been little or no information about Michael Harris, Mdina and everything else to do with him. It is only recently that Mark has been working with the Harris family in order to produce his fantastic and definitive book on Michael Harris. I really recommend it.

I think what Pip describes is absolutely the best way to deal with it. Get the wrong name into the listing by SAYING it's the wrong name.  ;D

You'll see, also, that the efforts of Marcus have paid off too, in getting the misnomer of Royal Bohemia removed from Miller's DK Collectables Price Guides, and correct attributions are now available.  Miller's DK Collectables Price Guides are GUIDES.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: MarkHill on January 11, 2007, 07:46:05 PM
Thanks Sue!
Yes, I admit I was the first to put 'Axehead' in print - partly as that is what seemed to be the general name at the time. I am sorry - I didn't know any better then, but I do now. I guess that is what 'learning' is about - this market was very young then, with tantamount to no real coverage. So, they ARE 'Fish' as that was what Michael Harris intended them to be called! As Sue also correctly says, this a later shape (more squared off) and colourway.
Also, could I be just a little pedantic and say that these listings (Mdina/IOW & Sklo Union) appear in the "DK Collectables Price Guides" by Judith Miller and published by Dorling Kindersley, for which I am co-author. I know it's common parlance to call us all 'Miller's', but we have nothing at all to do with 'Miller's', which is actually another book published by another company!
Thanks,
Mark
www.markhillpublishing.com
www.dk.com/judithmiller
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 12, 2007, 10:33:06 AM
 :o

I've just bought the new guide, I had to go and check what it's called.
I checked last year's too.
No, it's NOT called "Miller's" any more!

 ::)Something else to get into the public conciousness.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Sue C on January 12, 2007, 10:41:10 AM
Hi Mark, i have the D.K guide book on 20th cen glass, and i love it, congadulations on a super article in Collect It about Mdina.
How would you like people to differentciate between Miller's guide book's, and Judith's and your book's? as MIller's guide book's and then as D.K. Collectable guide's ? some people do get confused, and it should clear thing's up a bit when people state where they got their information from, and also detach you from the Millers guide's.
                                                                                   Sue
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 12, 2007, 10:49:45 AM
 ???

I need to be a little more pedantic rigorous myself, Mark! Apologies for implying that you "invented" the axe thing, as you point out, it seemed to be a descriptive term folk used for these pieces of glass before we knew better, so that was why it ended up in print.

When things are still being researched, endeavours for truth will always, like science, only be to the best standards possible, given the information and knowledge available at the time.
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 12, 2007, 10:56:01 AM
Thanks Sue!
Yes, I admit I was the first to put 'Axehead' in print - partly as that is what seemed to be the general name at the time. I am sorry - I didn't know any better then, but I do now. I guess that is what 'learning' is about - this market was very young then, with tantamount to no real coverage. So, they ARE 'Fish' as that was what Michael Harris intended them to be called! As Sue also correctly says, this a later shape (more squared off) and colourway.
Also, could I be just a little pedantic and say that these listings (Mdina/IOW & Sklo Union) appear in the "DK Collectables Price Guides" by Judith Miller and published by Dorling Kindersley, for which I am co-author. I know it's common parlance to call us all 'Miller's', but we have nothing at all to do with 'Miller's', which is actually another book published by another company!
Thanks,
Mark
www.markhillpublishing.com
www.dk.com/judithmiller

Sorry Mark!  I went and checked, and yes, you are right of course... the one with the axehead in it is a DK, in my ordinary Millers Collectables, the one lollipop I could find is just called a Mdina vase  ::)
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: MarkHill on January 13, 2007, 04:48:39 PM
Hi all,
Thanks for the updates and changes over the Miller's and Judith Miller price guide issue. A lot of people here refer to our guides as the 'J.Miller' book, but then they may also/actually be referring to our 20thC Glass book. I know that the 'DK Collectables Price Guide by Judith Miller' is a tad long-winded to say the least, so I guess the best thing to do is to call 'Millers' what they are and then either call ours the Judith Miller Collectables Guide or the DK Collectables Guide - at least both differentiate from Millers.
As they say in cloying Hollywood films, but honestly meant here - thank you for caring!!
Best,
Mark
www.markhillpublishing.com
www.dk.com/judithmiller

Glad you enjoyed the Collect It! article Dexter - thanks for the feedback  ;)
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Sue C on January 13, 2007, 05:01:35 PM
Thank's Mark, so now we can have a distinct difference between the two, and i promise to correct freinds's on the difference also'.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                 Sue
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 13, 2007, 05:18:49 PM
Anyway Mark, it is so excellent to have you here, that to call your books by their correct name is the very least we can do!

Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: Pip on January 13, 2007, 06:43:54 PM
Mark's visits here are sporadic but then like Ivo he has a life  ;D  Hi Mark, Happy New Year ....
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: josordoni on January 13, 2007, 06:44:53 PM
Mark's visits here are sporadic but then like Ivo he has a life  ;D  Hi Mark, Happy New Year ....

Doesn't matter, a sporadic visit is better than no visit at all... ;D
Title: Re: Mdina axehead vase. New or Vintage?
Post by: MarkHill on January 15, 2007, 07:59:43 PM
Thanks!  ;D
Happy new year to one and all too!
Mark