Glass Message Board

Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: VITRUM on February 20, 2011, 06:06:33 PM

Title: Bohemian red - pink iridescent vase
Post by: VITRUM on February 20, 2011, 06:06:33 PM
Bohemian red - pink iridescent vase. Less probable: not Bohemian. Height: 42 inches, including gilded mounting with silver plated  and gilded daises. Three prunts. Polished pontil, no signature. Loetz excluded. Possibly high - end Kralik but not documented. The lack of signature is not relevant - most of Bohemian glass sold within Austria - Hungary Empire was not signed.
Any suggestions regarding the maker ? 
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: keith on February 20, 2011, 07:48:27 PM
Very interesting,collect Kralik myself,amongst many others,if Craig is around he might know,I'll have to do some research on this,great piece :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Bohemian red - pink iridescent vase
Post by: VITRUM on February 20, 2011, 08:10:51 PM
I know Craig - we could not tell for sure. I thought this forum with so many members could help. I just hoped somebody had seen a similar piece.
Another possibility: Glasbafrik Elisabeth (PGM).The same shape, the same prunt but not in the same vase, no mounting.
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: Anne on February 21, 2011, 06:10:53 AM
Can I just double check that height... 42 inches? Or did you mean 42 cm? 42" would be one heck of a vase!
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: VITRUM on February 21, 2011, 04:46:31 PM
Sorry, my mistake - 44 cm !
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on March 16, 2011, 12:07:09 PM
I know you said Loetz was excluded, but I came across this (you've probably already seen it so apologies in advance) but this is listed as Loetz (I've not checked if it is or not), and the prunts look remarkably similar.
You need to scroll down to the last items on this page and there is a matching pair of vases there.

http://www.artglassnouveau.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/4523?opendocument&part=4

m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: VITRUM on March 16, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
Thanks for your precious time to search. Yes, the prunts are strikingly similar. The method we use for positive attribution is based on original drawings. Even Passau GM is full of misattributions (mostly Kralik attributed to Loetz). Unfortunately, only about 7000 design drawings have been discovered so far – or only 10%! Another disadvantage is the fact that Bohemian glass sold within Austria-Hungary Empire was not signed, or at best again only 10% Loetz is signed for home market. There is another mystery I will not live enough to see: the Czech government closed the Kralik archives for the next 50 years or so, God knows why. They did mess with the glass after WW II when they needed solid currency. Thanks again, cheers,
Ivan
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on March 16, 2011, 08:38:34 PM
You're welcome.  I understand about what what is needed for a positive attribution.  I just wondered whether the surface decor on the vases I linked to may be attributable to a particular factory, which may then help your search for your vase  :)
m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on October 17, 2012, 10:21:26 AM
Hi, I wondered if you had found a conclusive identification for your vase yet? 
m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on October 17, 2012, 11:28:24 AM
I saw on Collectors Weekly that this is possibly id'd as Glasfabrik Elisabeth - Pallme Koenig.
I have a vase now that is the same colour, same prunts as yours (just waiting for camera to charge to put a picture on) and appears to have the same pulled rim as this vase here (see link) which is id'd as Glasfabrik Elisabeth, Kosten by Teplitz

 http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4343365
If so, then is this a definite identification?
Just trying to understand the Elisabethhutte/Glasfabrik Elisabeth/Pallme Koenig factories, it seems from Truitt's page 103 Bohemian Glass 1880-1940, that between 1888 and 1907 the manufucturer would be known as Elisabethhutte (Kosten near Teplice), then after it merged with Pallme Koenig in 1907 it became known as Glasfabrik Elisabeth, Pallme Koenig & Habel.  I hope I understood that correctly?
If so, I wonder which era the link was referring to in terms of dating the vase as it appears to have mixed both names? confused  :-\

My vase is 8 3/8" (21.5cm) tall with polished pontil mark.  The prunts are quite beautiful, done in layers of opalescent and amethyst glass I think, then iridised along with the vase.
m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on November 16, 2012, 01:58:25 PM
On page 175 of Das Bohmische Glas1700-1950 Band iv in the section for Glasfabrik Elisabeth there is a plate with three vases on.  The right hand one appears to be in this deep pink red iridescent finish and appears to have the same applied dark purple iridescence on it in the form of rigaree ending in prunts with the same or very similar little tooling mark.  In addition, the rose bowl next to it has prunts on it in the same purple iridescence which look very like my prunts but they don't have the tool twist in the middle. 
I think these vases are Glasfabrik Elisabeth, Kosten bei Teplitz.  The one is the book is dated 1900-1910.
m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on November 17, 2012, 12:39:10 AM
ok, I have finally refound the collectors weekly post (and put the link on here now) and I can see that this information has already been mooted and queried - I'd not been able to find the link and when I saw them in the book just merrily added information already mentioned on the Collectors Weekly thread.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/19093-bohemian-vase-16-tall-glasfabrik-eli
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on November 26, 2012, 10:52:57 PM
Just in case anyone is reading this thread I have a question please?
is the query about whether it is Glasfabrik Elisabeth or Kralik, over the identification in Das Bohmische Glas IV being incorrect for the vase on page 175? or is it that Kralik may have made a very similar item?
thank you
m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on April 24, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/83054-the-apple-of-my-eye?in=442
this vase has been identified as Kralik by the poster.
The iridescence and the way it is applied and the colour is very reminiscent of my vase.
The finish isn't the same, the piece in the CW post has a cut and polished rim and a mold blown base, whereas mine has a neat and polished pontil mark and a fire polished rim.

Can anyone confirm the CW vase is definitely Kralik please? 
thanks
m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on November 05, 2015, 07:39:56 PM
I know I'm talking to myself here but I'm still wondering about my vase :)

I came across this identification in Pressglas-korrespondent for a vase id'd as Glasfabrik Elisabeth, Kosten bei Teplitz .

I know it's not the same vase but it really reminds me of my vase in terms of shape so I'm posting it anyway.
http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2014-4w-kellerer-pallme-habel-elisabethhuette-kosten.pdf

m
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: fontanazul on November 05, 2015, 07:50:31 PM
You talk alone. but some  listen to you  :)  :)  :)  :)   
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on November 05, 2015, 08:03:44 PM
I shall remember those words - thank you  :)
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on April 17, 2017, 08:10:59 PM
looking back my photos don't do the colour justice but I think it's the same as this piece with dragonflies on the silver collar.
Just adding it in case it helps with a future id
https://www.aspireauctions.com/#!/catalog/78/434/lot/17434
Title: Re: Bohemian red – pink iridescent vase
Post by: flying free on June 23, 2019, 07:52:14 PM
hmm, you wait and wait and then something comes along.
On this Bohemian glass site, I believe this is identified as Pallme Koenig 1900-1909 (no reference source though):

http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-rosa-glatt-mit-nuppen-v-montazi-4273/detail/

see two more versions as well:

http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/pallme-koenig1/rosa-glatt-mit-nuppen-rigaree/


If this is a definitive id then I'd still be interested to know the name of the factory when it was produced - harking back to my previous post in this thread:

'quote
I have a vase now that is the same colour, same prunts as yours (just waiting for camera to charge to put a picture on) and appears to have the same pulled rim as this vase here (see link) which is id'd as Glasfabrik Elisabeth, Kosten by Teplitz

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4343365
If so, then is this a definite identification?
Just trying to understand the Elisabethhutte/Glasfabrik Elisabeth/Pallme Koenig factories, it seems from Truitt's page 103 Bohemian Glass 1880-1940, that between 1888 and 1907 the manufucturer would be known as Elisabethhutte (Kosten near Teplice), then after it merged with Pallme Koenig in 1907 it became known as Glasfabrik Elisabeth, Pallme Koenig & Habel.  I hope I understood that correctly?
If so, I wonder which era the link was referring to in terms of dating the vase as it appears to have mixed both names? confused  :-\
'