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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: SteveM on May 20, 2005, 09:31:28 AM

Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: SteveM on May 20, 2005, 09:31:28 AM
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=5a2laf
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=5a2lcn
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=5a2lgl
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=5a2lio
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=5a2lna

This is an smokey/amber-coloured craquelé vase which I rescued from my late aunt's estate.My dear bro' was about to take it to the tip.I think he may have already done so with some Clarice Cliff pottery but that's another story!:(

It is only 17cm high but weighs a ton(nearly 2kg) because the glass is so thick.Pontil mark is partly ground away.

A few years ago I noticed an identical vase offered for sale in a Christies glass auction and they attributed it to Rousseau but also(like mine) it didn't have a signature or ID mark.Their price estimate was around £300 but it didn't sell anyway as far as I recall.
I quite like it but my wife doesn't really!

Anyone here have any ideas.Thanks.
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: Frank on May 20, 2005, 03:34:19 PM
Auction houses always like to use 'attributions' and of course often get it wrong. I doubt this is Rousseau.

My first instinct was WMF but I have not heard of crackle glass being used before which does not mean much, as the Ikora range were mostly one-offs.

Best site http://www.glaskilian.de
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: jomo99 on May 20, 2005, 06:23:37 PM
Hi Steve,

                  I take it your Brother is not a Glass Lover like us? :(   your pice is absolutely GORGEOUS!!!! I haven't a clue who its by but I LOVE it!!!!

         Warmest Wishes

               John
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: SteveM on May 20, 2005, 10:30:24 PM
Thanks John.My aunt used it as a lamp base as it's difficult to turn over!

If I hadn't met my wife then I might have been as "uncultured" as my bro' :lol:
But his wife doesn't help..would't recognize a beautiful object if it hit her on the head and regards everything that's not immediately utilitaran for her,as "clutter".In the bin with it :roll:

When we arrived at my aunt's flat after her death,bro' had already taken 10 full binbags to the tip! And she was a lady of expensive tastes with an income to support them!We managed to save a Clarice Cliff and a Moorcroft vase but we have no idea what was in the 10 bin-bags apart from "clutter".  :(
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: SteveM on May 20, 2005, 10:59:58 PM
Frank: Thanks so much for the Ikora link.

I didn't find anything there resembling this craquelé vase.However,I did find
a large dish(39cm) that we bought here in NL 20 years ago is absolutely definitely WMF Ikora.
Probably one of those 1930's ones or earlier because ours has a lot of uranium green in it.Amazing effect if you light it with blacklight and then turn off the light...glows in the dark for some time afterwards!
Very probably a health hazard and might be classed as radio-active waste!

I'll take a shot of it and post it here soon. Thanks again.

PS. I suspect that the auction house only described the vase as Rousseau because it was craquelé.Wasn't he one of the first to apply the technique?
Sort of like calling a vacuum cleaner a Hoover  :!:
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: Frank on May 21, 2005, 08:48:53 AM
I doubt he was the first, I am fairly certain the technique is a lot older. (Could be wrong, to early in the morning for trawling through books)
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: SteveM on May 21, 2005, 09:41:20 AM
From the Dutch version of GLAS by Dan Klein and Ward Lloyd p181 a roughly translated piece:
Quote
One of the first glass makers to be inspired by the old Venetian glass techniques was George Bontemps in Choisy-le-Roi.............
In England it was the multi-talented Apsley Pellatt who made the first attempts at reproducing various old Venetian techniques.One of the glass types that Apsley Pellatt showed at the Great Exhibition of 1851 was that of Venetian craquelé glass.........


So the Venetians probably invented it and it was picked up again later around 1850.

The only reason for an auction house to associate "craquelé" with Rousseau(apart from getting attention!) would seem to be that:( also from the same book)
Quote
Rousseau experimented with colours and techniques and, in particular, with the effects of internal craquelé pattern as a decorative medium.........


Well,I'm quite awake now.And have learned something! :lol:
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: Frank on May 21, 2005, 11:03:04 AM
Ivo's book lists the technique as 18th Century Venetian.

Also known as Ice Glass and Crackle glass.
Title: Another "What is it"?
Post by: nigel benson on May 21, 2005, 01:03:14 PM
Hello All,

Unfortunately I cannot access my full library at the moment, however I do have a book showing a piece similar to the one in your photographs Steve.

I thought it was Victor Arwas's "Glass - Art Nouveau to Art Deco".  I do happen to have a copy of the first edition of that book with me and it does not have this illustrated. It does, however, say under F.E. Rousseau in a passage on page 189:

"A number of other internal effects were achieved. These included various coloured streaks and patches and patterns simulating moss, lithen or autumnal branches. Colour patches were often used in conjunction with crackle glass."

I have also sold a piece like this as Rosseau many years ago. The foreign dealer who bought it from me confirmed my attribution at the time.

Whilst this is not conclusive, and I hesitate to come to the rescue of auction houses, I think on this occasion they may well have been right.

If the catalogue was Christies UK, as well as a Glass auction (as opposed to Decorative Arts), it is unlikely it would have sold - unless it was picked up by a continental collector or dealer - since it is not a range generally understood over here.

I would fully discount WMF as a contender. Incidently, although they did make a large number of Ikora "Unikat" pieces, there are pages and pages of Ikora production ware illustrated in the recent book on the subject.

Hope this helps, Nigel  :)
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: SteveM on May 21, 2005, 05:08:02 PM
Thanks Nigel.It helps a great deal.I've searched through our old Christies (South Ken.) catalogues but cannot find the catalogue in particular.

However,whilst searching I did find this in the Christies South Kensington catalogue:Lalique and 20th Century European Sculpture and Decorative Arts
15th May 2003......

http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=5arfns

The shape is different but the technique/colour looks identical.Attributed to Eugene Léveillé.

Even though I can't find the catalogue with the identical vase,I know I'm not mistaken about their(Christie's) attribution.It's not something I could have come up with by myself!!

Thanks again.
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: Frank on May 21, 2005, 05:59:02 PM
In Arwas Art of Glass the François-Eugène Rousseau and the Ernest-Baptiste Leveille examples appear side by side. Rousseau started with glass in 1867 and Leveille joined him as aglass decorator in 1877. Both examples differ in the technique used, both are also cameo's and the manner of applying the colour differs from your example. I can imagine an auction house attributing examples like this too them but I remain sceptical.

They could have also attributed to the makers of this piece (http://www.ysartglass.com/Moncat/Images/JE-2.jpg). Which also exists in a clear example with bubbles and just a few patches of colour.
Title: Another"What is it"?
Post by: nigel benson on May 21, 2005, 07:13:49 PM
Frank,

Whilst I understand your scepticism, I really don't think that you're comparing like with like here.

The pieces that you allude to in Arwas's "Art Nouveau to Art Deco, The Art of Glass" pp 10 (not to be confused with the book I quoted earlier in this thread, for others benefit) are not the same beast at all.

They are both from more sophisticated and technically accomplished ranges produced by both artists, which admittedly give a nod toward what we're talking about here, but employ cameo decoration across the surface of the vases, which largely masks the technique underneath.

One of the difficulties here is that we are discussing illustrations, without the benefit of handling the item(s). Moreover, the items in question are rare, so inevitably there will be a divergence of opinion.

It seems to be a red herring to bring in an illustration of an item from a known manufacturer (Monart), which has a different finish with the enamel on the surface of the vase, and, apart from having patches of colour, bares little resemblence to the piece in question. Further, although there may be another piece by the same company that is cased , having random patches of colour and bubble decoration, there is no mention of crackling within the glass - as is shown with the piece under discussion.

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but is it that your just sceptical about the attribution, which I can appreciate and respect, or are we talking about mis-attribution by auctioneers? - which is an entirely different subject.

Nigel
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: KevinH on May 21, 2005, 08:51:34 PM
I cannot really add anything to the discussion of attribution of Steve's item, but I can quote from Apsley Pellat's book, Curiosities of Glafs Making - first published 1849. This adds an interesting comment or two about the type of glass and certainly confirms what Steve concluded as  
Quote
... the Venetians probably invented it and it was picked up again later around 1850.


In a section headed, Old Venetian Frosted Glass, Pellat said:
Quote
Frosted Glass, ... is one of the few specimens of Venetain work not previously made by the Egyptians and Romans; and not since excuted by the Bohemian or French Glass-makers. The process of making it, until recently practised at the Falcon Glass Works, was considered a lost art.
So the term Pellat used was "Frosted Glass", indicating that somebody else at a later date came up with "Crackle" or "Ice Glass" or other names. The Falcon Glass Works was Pellat's company so he defintely laid claim to the "practise of the lost art" of Frosted Glass made by dipping the blown gather, "while nearly at white heat" in cold water.
Title: Smokey amber craquelé vase
Post by: SteveM on May 21, 2005, 10:44:12 PM
Thanks for all the input everyone.

I must say that when I found the photo of the vase attributed to Léveillé,I was struck by the similarity of the glass colour,craquelé and applied colour to that of my vase.
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=5arfns

It was only after I photographed the vase that I noticed a small piece of green in one part of the decoration.That could be the "lichen" effect that you mentioned,Nigel.

As I mentioned in a previous post,I almost certainly have another large dish which is WMF Ikora(Thanks to Frank for that link).That dish has a craquelé-like finish when seen at a distance but close-up it is not craquelé at all..more like a "spider-web" application on the glass but not through it.
I'll post a photo of that one too when I get around to it.

Thanks again.