Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on October 14, 2011, 06:02:06 PM
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On Pamela's 'Pavillon' site - under trinket sets for England - there is a single image of an uranium example of a smallish perfume flask, which is catalogued as 'International Bottle Company circa 1930'. The Rd. No. for this particular piece (placed in relief on the underside of the container) was presumably only partly legible - since Pamela was unable to show all of the six digits.
I'm unable to comment on whether the manufacturer was International Bottle Co., or not, and haven't a clue as to where Pamela obtained this information, but can add a little to the details already on the pavillon site, as follows:
The full base wording reads.........BRITISH REGD NO. 755481, and at opposing ends of the base are an upper case letter R, and the numeral 6 (or could be a 9?).
Using the Glass Association 'blue book' (for Registration Nos. for March 1908 onwards - page 15), this indicates that the No. was first registered on 11th June 1930 by the Dubarry Perfumery Co. Ltd., U.K.
This company would have been a very well known English name in the world of toilet luxuries and perfumery in the first half of the C20 - they started out, I think, some time around 1908 - although the name ceased officially in the 1960's when they succumbed to a take-over - I understand that their large and imposing premises were (and think they are still) in Hove (West Sussex, U.K.) - adjacent to the railway station.
I dislike nicking too many bits from the internet, and you can read quite a lot about the history of the company, by ex employees etc. on the web - but I did think that the following snippet was rather intriguingly gruesome .............. "One of the many rumours about the place was that Lady Dubarry was found hanging on the top floor towards the Hove Villas end of the building. That was always a particularly cold area even in the summer". Who knows - maybe just apocryphal.
attached is a pic. of my own example in frosted finish, and doubtless the tin screw cap rusted away many years ago. Heitht is approximately 5"/125mm.
Hope Pamela does manage to see this.
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Hi Paul, thought you might like to see some adverts for this talcum bottle - on the advertising archive website here: http://www.advertisingarchives.co.uk/index.php?service=search&action=do_quick_search&language=en&q=Dubarry (http://www.advertisingarchives.co.uk/index.php?service=search&action=do_quick_search&language=en&q=Dubarry) you'll find two adverts for these talc bottles in the 12 Dubarry results. The bottles seem to have come in blue, green, yellow and frosted clear (white) with a gold coloured lid and black and gold labels and cost 2/- each in the 1930s, so not a cheap product!
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UBC is as likely a manufacturer as any though. They certainly made such things.
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:angel: :angel:
On Pamela's pavillon site there's an email address and if you head the topic 'pressed glass' she answers remarkably quickly. Thus, she's certain to see what you'd like her to know. :D
angel2
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thanks for the replies :) - great link Anne - I'm a very passionate fan of those deco period ads., although don't know whether your 'yellow' equates to uranium - and I was obviously very wrong in thinking the container was a perfume flask.
I will get around to giving Pamela a nod later today - thanks.
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Paul, can you add a closeup pic of your bottle base please? I'm looking at Pamela's and trying to make out the number on hers but it doesn't look like a 4..... zooming in it looks like Pamela's says 755581 or 755881, so being able to compare it with your base would be really helpful. Ta! :X:
BTW the IBC reference seems to have originated here on the board:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,3988.0.html - Tony says they also come in pink.
Edited to add: I'm not doubting yours says 755481, as this is the right number for the bottle, as we already know, but I'm just puzzled as to the shape of the digits on Pamela's example. :kissy:
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I wonder if the lid on this one is a later version or a replacement? It doesn't match those shown in the advert I linked to above...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220847799314
and here's a hand-painted one which also still has some of the DuBarry labels:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/77210461/vintage-pale-green-floral-glass-talcum
Ooohhh and another snippet, an old Google search entry for a now-vanished eBay item that was for a small bottle in this pattern with the same RD no. and which did still contain traces of perfume, so Paul you're not wrong at all. The bottles came in more than one size, smaller ones for perfume and the larger size like yours for talc! :rah:
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What about the discrepancy over who registered the design?
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I checked the GA Blue Book and it says DuBarry registered it on 11 June 1930, Christine, so I was puzzled over the IBC reference from Tony here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,3988.msg31271.html#msg31271 until I checked his image here: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-857 when all became clear! :sun:
He shows 2 items, one has an IBC RD no, the other is a DuBarry bottle like Paul's with a partially unreadable RD no.
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Bon soir............sorry for the delay in replying, and in fact I had already stated................"this indicates that the No. was first registered on 11th June 1930 by the Dubarry Perfumery Co. Ltd., U.K."
Not easy photographing the base of this piece - the frosted finish, coupled with the poor pressing - making the details indistinct - are not ideal for pictures. But have wiped a magic marker over its bottom and........hope you are able to read the No. 755481. I have no need to keep this item, so it will travel to B'ham in November.
However, letter to Father Christmas.......please, I'd like one in uranium :)
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Indeed you did Paul. :-* Christine was querying the IBC assertion in the linked topic rather than your statement of its being Dubarry and I just tried to explain what had apparently happened.
Thank you for adding the pic of your bottom (as it were!). It still doesn't look like the shape of the hard to read digit on Pamela's one, so why that is will have to remain a curiosity for now.
Now we've resolved that conundrum, we can revert to considering who actually made your bottle... which we'll struggle with without having access to the order books of the likely candidates. IBC have to remain a possibility, as would Bagley, who produced a similar sunray bottle under their own RD no. 781996, and being primarily a bottle works they are known to have produced bottles for companies such as AVON and Rose's (lime juice people) amongst others.
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If anyone is interested, here's one complete with labels...and talc!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/art-deco-glass-bottle-talcum-powder-Dubarry-/180746150504
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thanks Wayne - I wonder if the contents still smell of Lily of the Valley? Could be completely wrong, but the top looks as though it might be plastic, possibly - would be interesting to know for how long this particular item was manufactured.
Subsequent to my original notes, I have since discovered that Barry Skelcher included a uranium example in one of his books, for which he quotes a height of 12.75 cm., which equates to five inches tall (we don't know for certain, of course, but the ebay seller may have erred in assessing the height). This possible variation in height, coupled with the different images of this container shown in Anne's links - suggests that throughout the entire production period for this container there may well have alterations to the specification - certainly the cap design and paper logos appear to have varied, and the height, possibly.
Skelcher's uranium example - in common with almost all of the images in Anne's links - shows a container with a brass plated cap, which we know were the original 1930's screw tops - which may suggest that the plastic lidded ebay example was a later modified design - maybe from the late 1940's or early 50's.
Skelcher's text adds nothing new to the question as to who manufactured the glass - in fact quite the opposite - he draws attention to the (perhaps) common error of assuming that the manufacturer was the company to whom the design was first registered.
Ref. 'The Big Book of Vaseline Glass' - Barrie Skelcher - 2002 (Schiffer) - pages 39 and 156.
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Thinking aloud: maybe they switched to plastic when metals were appropriated for wartime production? I've seen several with plastic lids now as well as those with metal lids.
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I've just seen one today with a green Bakelite lid and non-uranium green glass.
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and here is a picture of a yellow one with an indistinct Regd No 755481
The labels say Golden Morn and Dubarry Talcum, though I've forgotten to take a picture of the rear label
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and here is the back
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Makers and designers of their perfume bottles. http://www.perfumeintelligence.co.uk/library/perfume/d/houses/DuBarry.htm