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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: flying free on January 16, 2013, 06:54:36 PM

Title: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 16, 2013, 06:54:36 PM
I cannot find hide nor hair of a reference for this anywhere, but I'm sure I've seen one similar before because I remember seeing it and thinking if I ever saw another I would buy it.  This one unfortunately has really been through the wars and is not in a good state.  However regardless of this, it's just perfect, exactly as I imagined it would be.  But now I cannot find my reference anywhere.  It's very neatly done with each layer being separate.
It's wonderful because if you look side on it's very neat and look like a tree  coming into leaf, but if you look at it from a slight angle top down it suddenly bursts into leaf and bloom and is full of reds and green. 
I thought it might have been Bohemian and therefore fairly old?  but I could be wrong.
It has four 'fountain' layers of the green bits some of which look like bits of canes.  With red 'apples' or 'blossom' interspersed in the branches.  The foot i.e. the ground underneath the tree,  is a bit swirly with transparent colours. The base is flat ground but is badly damaged and practically white with marks.

Can anyone remember seeing this anywhere please? or have any information on it?
Many thanks for your time :)
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2013, 12:37:20 AM
close ups which should show canes.  It's been a struggle to get them to show clearly.
thanks for looking:)
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2013, 12:38:27 AM
a couple more
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 18, 2013, 06:49:36 PM
is it possible this is a Silesian weight?  I've found some very tenuous links or rather, put together some very tenuous thinking on it  ;D
or does anyone think I'm in the completely wrong time frame and area please  :)
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 19, 2013, 10:49:16 AM
My rather tenuous thinking is that I searched for weights that might have the same green and red colour millefiori in them.  And that also have the 'bundle' of green canes with white centres that can be seen in the tree.

The green is quite yellow and the red is quite tomato/orangey and it didn't seem to be the same colour as many  weights I came across.
.
Then I happened on a paperweight that was suggested was Silesian that seems to have the same green and bundles of canes.
http://www.paperweights.pl/Bohemian-draft.pdf  (see Type III Silesian? header page - it's quite a long way down the presentation)

 In the same presentation there was a Josephinenhutte glass made of red filigrana canes that again seemed to be the similar red.

And lastly there was a lovely photograph of the Josephinenhutte factory with a brook running through the trees.  That scene made me think of my weight.  My tree looks more like one of those than an apple tree.

But then did Josephinenhutte do this kind of weight?  I wasn't sure.  That led me on to maybe Weisswasser?
It does have some similarities with Weisswasser weights.   But I wasn't able to find a good match to it in the end. 

m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: petet63 on January 19, 2013, 12:19:22 PM
As is usual I am no use in helping ID this but if you want to take a good close up use a good Magnifying Glass. You might take ten shots for one good one but it works ok. The bigger the lens the better from my experience. (I have had some really interesting shots that would have made good wall art.)
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 19, 2013, 05:58:48 PM
thanks Pete :)
My camera has good magnification and I've taken shots through a magnifying glass but in all honestly those pics above are as good as it gets.  The glass is old(I think) and bubbly and the canes are all in bits so very difficult to see.  But they are there.  It looks to me as though many of them are bundles of canes with a green exterior and white interior and many others look like they are chopped up bits of green and white cane roses possibly.
The red ones have white streaks in them I think.
Of course I could be completely wrong, it might be a battered brand new Chinese weight for all I know. 
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: tropdevin on January 19, 2013, 08:52:34 PM
***

I don't recognise the design, but I think I'd go for the relatively modern Chinese option......it really does not look like anything like an old Bohemian weight to me. That siad, it could be from a small modern glass studio in many countries, playing around with designs. 

I know of no evidence for Josephinehutte or various Silesian factories making this kind of thing.

Alan
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 19, 2013, 10:25:39 PM
thanks Alan  :)


this is the link to the page I found - there is one weight in the left hand column that is made of frit and has three layers. 
 
http://briefbeschwerer.kulturpixel.de/artikel/99_Briefbeschwerer_Paperweights_Lausitz_Schlesien_Sachsen_Brandenbu

the pic I've added is one of it slightly looking down on it so the tree looks in leaf. Unfortunately it's damaged (fortunately got a discount when it arrived) but I love it and didn't want to send it back  :) 

m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: tropdevin on January 20, 2013, 01:07:48 PM
Hi m

I'm familiar with that website, and have both of Peter von Brackel's books, and I am still not sure that your paperweight is from central Europe somewhere. The style is certainly similar to some of the weights shown, but the Chinese do copy other people's designs - and the yellow, red and green glass within looks very similar in colour to that in many Chinese weights.

Alan
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on January 20, 2013, 01:12:59 PM
Oh, I'm sorry Alan :) I wasn't disputing your comments - I hope my reply didn't come across that way.

I was just adding a reference in case people thought I was making up my tenuous thoughts  ;D

I know what you mean about the colours also being seen in Chinese weights.   
I will keep looking.  Thank you again.
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: tropdevin on January 20, 2013, 02:07:29 PM
***

Hi m.

I hadn't assumed you were disagreeing - but anyway, I don't mind people arguing with me or challenging my comments about uncertain attributions: it is a good and healthy way to test and refine - or reject - ideas.

Alan
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on March 23, 2013, 07:00:13 PM
oh my goodness, I'm so excited, I think I've found my tree (please disappoint me gently  ;D)
Sibylle Jargstorf book called Paperweights -  page 21
'Paperweight.Germany, 19th century (Private Collection, Germany).  The speckles are arranged in six (!) super imposed layers which is an extraordinary achievement.  The highly developed artistic sense of the maker is documented by the limited choice of colours, dominantly moss-green spatters, just enhanved by a few contrasting bits.'
I'm pretty sure it's the same maker.
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on March 23, 2013, 08:46:50 PM
following my discovery above
I should say
I'm pretty sure it's the same place/era/type weight, I can see there are differences in the way it is made, mine looks less tidy, but the tree shape and the way it is done in the 4 layers and the frit is the same I think.
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: KevinH on March 24, 2013, 12:21:16 AM
I agree with Alan on a very likely Chinese origin for m's weight.

The one in Jargstorf is worked with five well formed horizontal layers set over a solid ground composed of the same translucent green with other coloured frit as seen in the the layers. The 'five plus ground' are what Jargstorf called six layers. Through the centre of all layers is a stem of an air bubble which draws each layer downwards at its centre (maybe formed with a single thrust of a metal tool or perhaps separate inserts into various layers). At the top of the pattern is a large air bubble formed when the final gather of glass was added over the tooling work.

m's weight does not have the single air bubble insertion. It's layers are individually tooled several times with a varied result looking like multiple "harlequin" layers but not properly joined above each other. And the layers, probably as a result of the way they have been "pierced" end up looking more like a pagoda roof shape than a standard European "bubble and frit" item.

Yes, there are similarities with the translucency of the main colour and the other coloured chips, but for me, that's where the similarity ends. I think it is a credible Chinese attempt at a multi-layered harlequin-type design but it fails in the detail of execution.
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on March 24, 2013, 12:30:56 AM
 ;D darn it
oh well, I will definitely know what I'm looking for next time then.
m
Title: Re: Red green Apple tree paperweight- Antique? Bohemian? Dump shape 4 layer fountain
Post by: flying free on April 16, 2021, 06:52:08 AM
Just an update.  I took this paperweight out  the cupboard last week and the glass was flaking off in smallish flakes/chunks.  So bad composition glass?

I've binned it.

m