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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: josordoni on April 21, 2007, 11:50:32 AM

Title: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: josordoni on April 21, 2007, 11:50:32 AM
Now with no offence to anyone who likes Chinese millefiori bottles, I can't help thinking this is the bottom of the pile when it comes to quality....

The glass is very oily and yellow, am I right a) that it is chinese, b) that it might have a bit of age to it?

http://clarkagency.co.uk/clicpicapril/chinese_bottle/_local_chinese_bottle.htm

My own gallery for the mo, I'll pop it into my Glass Gallery if it is viewed to be worth keeping for posterity (most certainly not prosperity....  ;D ;D)

Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: Wuff on April 21, 2007, 06:30:42 PM
I've got an almost identical one: 95 mm dia, 109 mm high (main body), 1165 g (all together).
The glass of mine seems to be much clearer, though there is some yellow tint in the thick bottom part.
Not high quality - but I quite liked it - wouldn't have bought it otherwise ;-).
From the canes I always assumed it was Murano, second half 20th century - but that's just a vague guess: I also would be very interested to hear other's opinion on it's maker.
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: Leni on April 21, 2007, 08:08:11 PM
These canes are similar to some seen in Murano weights, but even the Murano-made canes are available for sale on the internet, so the weights and bottles could be made anywhere!   I reckon it's a Chinese one.  Chinese glass is of very variable quality, in my experience. 
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: Wuff on April 21, 2007, 09:17:56 PM
If sold via Internet, this would mean fairly recent. I would assume that Murano canes were likely exported before the Internet: does anyone have info on earlier weights manufactured outside Murano (or Italy) but using canes bought from Murano manufacturers?
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: KevinH on April 22, 2007, 08:45:22 PM
Yes - Chinese. I also have one just like it, except it has no "dipper" (as is the case with some others I have seen). Canes match others in known Chinese weights - and they also appear in some items shown in my Zibo trade catalogues from 2000. Base also shows the yellow very well, and is rough ground, too.

I think the date of these is probably "last ten years or so".

Mine was bought at an "antiques & collectables" fair in the UK - and it had an "old English" hoped-for attribution. I knew it was not OE, but it wasn't until later that I discovered it to be Chinese. The "dipper" is typical and still appears in the same shape in some of the current bottles. I paid a bit too much for my example!
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on April 23, 2007, 06:37:41 PM
The white 'coggy' looking canes do look a lot like italian canes. I wou;d need a closer look to say for sure but the red and blue canes are typical recent Chinese. It is interesting that it is so yellow because I've seen some recent Chinese stuff that is very clear.
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: Wuff on April 23, 2007, 06:56:01 PM
The canes are very difficult to photograph due to the shape of the bottle - the only clear pictures can be taken through the bottle neck:
(http://www.seelentags.de/pw/sonst80e200.jpg)
There are no just white canes in my sample - only the two shown on the image.
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: Leni on April 23, 2007, 06:58:43 PM
IMO the latest Chinese glass is definitely of a higher quality than that of only comparatively few years ago.  I am not sure of the chemical constituents, but as I mentioned in my thread in the Glass forum about 'Oily Glass', it was mostly my Chinese weights which were affected.  However, the oldest weights (1930's - 60's) seemed to be less affected, although the colour of the glass was in some cases quite yellow. 

It would be very interesting to know if particular Chinese glass houses produce clearer glass, and exactly what the chemical composition is.  However, my recent attempts to find out anything from China about their glass making has so far met with no success  :-\ 
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: josordoni on April 23, 2007, 07:52:15 PM
IMO the latest Chinese glass is definitely of a higher quality than that of only comparatively few years ago.  I am not sure of the chemical constituents, but as I mentioned in my thread in the Glass forum about 'Oily Glass', it was mostly my Chinese weights which were affected.  However, the oldest weights (1930's - 60's) seemed to be less affected, although the colour of the glass was in some cases quite yellow. 

It would be very interesting to know if particular Chinese glass houses produce clearer glass, and exactly what the chemical composition is.  However, my recent attempts to find out anything from China about their glass making has so far met with no success  :-\ 

Certainly my later Chinese lampworked weights are much much cleaner and brighter glass.  Which is why I presumed this had a bit of age to it, as I would have expected the sophistication of the later works to be trying to emulate the Scottish bottles rather than Old English. 

Kev, like you I paid over the odds for this one....I didn't look carefully enough at it before bidding.  :'(

Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on April 23, 2007, 08:52:58 PM
Wuff: Those are definitely Chinese canes. They have some similarity to a Fratelli Toso cane but they are typical Chinese colors :orangey red, weak cobalt blue and milky white (as opposed to the more opaque white I usually see in Italian glass). That six petaled flower in the center of each cane is characteristic of Chinese weights.
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: josordoni on May 02, 2007, 02:00:18 PM
Karel, what do you reckon?

Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: karelm on May 02, 2007, 05:47:00 PM
Hi,
Firstly I have bought the bottle that originated this post and secondly it is my first bottle so whatever I say needs to be seen in that light!
I think the tinge is more on the green side than yellow. Especially viewed from the base/thicker part of the glass.
I will say Chinese looking at the canes and quality: the canes are the right colours, shape and size for Chinese. Quality wise the setup is off-centre, the pointel has been badly grinded and there are remnants of impurities, the stopper is a very loose fit and small for the overal design (not sure if this is typical of bottles or of Chinese ones or if the stopper was changed somewhere along the line). The long stem on the stopper did surprise me.  On the quality issue, it immediately lets me want to attribute age (buyers optimism ???) as the Chinese quality has become so much better in recent years, but having searched for info, I cannot find any record of how long bottles have been in production there?

Purist would not like this one!

I am as happy as a pig in the proverbial ;D.  Thanks Lynne, and thanks to all those here as I knew what I was buying!!!
I finally have a botle in my collection...now where are those bar tools to bid on >:D
Kind regards,
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: glasstrufflehunter on May 02, 2007, 08:47:49 PM
I'm no purist. If I saw something like that for a good price I'd grab it. Even if it is not old, the tint to the glass makes it look old and that is a look I like. A very nifty find!
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: josordoni on May 02, 2007, 09:05:19 PM
Hi Karel, I'm delighted that you bought it.  I like to keep these nice bits in the family... 8)
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: tropdevin on May 02, 2007, 09:36:08 PM
I tend to think of these and similar items fromthe 1950 -1980 period as 'Chirano' - made in China using Murano canes. You can find pages and pages of 'Murano' paperweights on the websites of Chinese glass manufacturers if you search hard enough. Buy 300 similar items, and the price starts at around US $ 0,50 per item, and goes up to as much as US $ 4.00.....I'm not sure where the canes are being made at the present time, though - maybe the Chinese are also selling canes to Murano?

Alan
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: karelm on May 03, 2007, 07:15:34 AM
I tend to think of these and similar items fromthe 1950 -1980 period as 'Chirano' - made in China using Murano canes.
I like the term Chirano a lot!!!  Mind if it is used in listings?  Only trouble is correct atributing of them!
Kind regards,
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: tropdevin on May 03, 2007, 07:19:37 AM
Hi Karel

Please feel free to use it! The question is whether the reader will understand...

Alan
Title: Re: Chinese millefiori bottle - very yellow, would it be an old one?
Post by: Frank on May 05, 2007, 06:37:54 PM
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